Now that the Rev. Jeremiah Wright has declared Louis Farrakhan “one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st Century,” let’s take a minute and explore a core belief of Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam.
Here is Farrakhan’s teacher, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, describing how the white race was created (or “grafted”):
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62 comments:
And? I've heard about this religion that claims that the entire universe is only 6,000 years old, that human were created by some super-intelligent scientific type entity out of clay, and that some guy rose, zombie like, back to life after he was beaten and crucified to death.
Moreover, the main shaper of that religion saw some kind of unidentified flying object (UFO) in the form of light in the sky and saw the dead guy (the one who came to life decades earlier) give him instructions on how to set up this religious cult all over the place.
As far as I know, Hillary Clinton, Obama, and John McCain subscribe to this nutty stuff.
Do you do so, too?
One branch (the second oldest) of this cult even claims that the organizational head of the cult is "infallible". Like their God.
When are you gonna "expose" them? Or are you a member of that cult as well?
I'm not about to jump in between you and Mr. Fischer, but the "cult" he's talking about tends to make more claims towards supernatural occurance, not blatantly incorrect eugenic assumption. This observed from the point of a religion older than either of these knuckleheads :P
but go you two go on ahead...
ya'll got a thing goin.
shalom :)
...are you talking about the cult built on just 10 of the 42 Principles of Ma'at ???
fishsalot...
"...are you talking about the cult built on just 10 of the 42 Principles of Ma'at ???"
Yeah well one of the three sub-branches of that. Though the adherents of that cult apparently were so wicked that they had to be admonished not to perform these ten crimes. While the adherents of Ma'at freely and proudly affirmed that they had not committed any of these crimes plus the 32 additional ones.
As far as creation myths go, you've gotta give Mr. Muhammad points for originality.
The only point given to Mr. Muhammad is...
http://www.anthonyflood.com/rockwellelijah.htm
NOTHING
ELSE,
R
...I say bring on the missing 32, otherwise it's his-story!
render...
"The only point given to Mr. Muhammad is...
And your point is exactly?
BIGOT,
R
Bigot against who, render?
I’ll respond in two parts. All religions are based on myths which may contain kernels of historical truths (that some people consider to be literally true), but more importantly they are ways of attempting to understand life.
For example, in the Bible animals talk to humans and trees talk to each other.
Genesis 3:1-5 (KJV)
1: Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Numbers 22:28-20 (KJV)
28: And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
29: And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
30: And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.
Judges 9: 8-15
8: The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said to the olive-tree, Reign thou over us.
9: But the olive-tree said to them, Should I leave my fatness, with which by me they honor God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
10: And the trees said to the fig-tree, Come thou, and reign over us.
11: But the fig-tree said to them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees?
12: Then said the trees to the vine, Come thou, and reign over us.
13: And the vine said to them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
14: Then said all the trees to the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us.
15: And the bramble said to the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon.
The bottom line here is that when interpreted literally all religions have some strange features. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad gets singled out because he deals with his myths in the racial arena.
Whereas the promulgations of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad probably sound outrageous to many people, the fact of the matter is, white folks, Caucasians, Europeans, or whatever you want to call them, came from somewhere?
Some of the most brilliant scholars this world has ever produced have theories that are not “that far” removed from Elijah Muhammad.
From "The Black Race: Origin of All Humanity" by Runoko Rashidi:
Around 50,000 years Before Present (B.P.), during the Upper Paleolithic Period, Black Africoid people arrived from Africa and the Southern Hemisphere into Europe via the Straits of Gibraltar and the Isthmus of Suez. Today, Palaeo, Physical and Forensic Anthropology, as well as Prehistoric-Archaeology have definitively proven that the Black Africoids’ presence and culture was supreme and spread throughout the entire Earth, long before the arrival of Aryan-Whites (Europeans, today) and Mongoloid-Asians.
In fact, such Africoid cultural traces have been found all over Europe and Asia, from the Iberian Peninsula (Spain), to Lake Baykal in Siberia, passing through France, Austria, the Crimea and Basin of Don, today’s Russia (Dr. Diop, Civilization or Barbarism, p 15, 1991; Dr. C. Finch, Echoes of the Old Darkland-Themes From the African Eden, 1991, Kenti, Inc., USA, and Ghana Daily Graphic Newspaper, “Europe Founded By Few hundred Africans?” April 24th, 2001, No. 148197, Accra, Ghana.
Also, geneticist, Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza of Stanford University, Palo Alto, California, states that the Caucasoid (Aryan-Whites) and Mongoloid (yellow race) did not come on the Earth until about 26,000 years Before Present. These two racial groups are the products of the Black Africoids’ mutation during the last Ice Age (Dr. Luigi Cavelli Sforza, New York Times Newspaper, July 27th, 1993, article: “A Geneticist Maps Ancient Migration”).
In “Echoes of the Old Darkland” by Charles Finch III, M.D. (of the Morehouse School of Medicine), the following is quoted: “We propose that the ... population that survived the last glaciations in southwestern Eurasia was largely a group of albinoids who were better adapted to the ecology than their darker relatives who had originally colonized the area.
These latter were gradually replaced by albinoids, though small groups of African aboriginal types long persisted on the North Atlantic seaboard because of the availability of Vitamin-D-rich salt-water fish. This “goodness-of-fit” of the albinoids in this northern environment was due to the more efficient Vitamin D production and utilization in the whitened skin in these sunlight-deficient latitudes and better cold resistance.
The Ice Age had the practical effect of isolating this marginal group from other populations for a prolonged period, promoting a consanguinity that would have allowed the recessive albinoid genes to express and propagate themselves.
Creation of a new race via depigmentation is consistent with the tendency in nature of new species and subspecies to form out of marginal groups that have become isolated from their “parent” populations and subjected more or less abruptly to extreme environmental conditions, which generate intense selection pressure.”
Albinoid mutation seems as good a speculation since the fossil data and genetic data both seem to rule in favor of a common, Black African ancestry for all mankind.
http://stewartsynopsis.com/chapter_7.htm
UBM: You might want to take a look at the link I posted before I cut and paste excerpts from it over here to prove my point. I'll await your permission.
===
I note that there are very few cedar trees left in Lebanon.
SHIP
MASTS,
R
^ Render, I've posted audio of Rockwell here... I don't give a shit.
I do suggest, if you want people to read what you post, don't just do a text dump. Otherwise, have at it.
Creation of a new race via depigmentation is consistent with the tendency in nature of new species and subspecies to form out of marginal groups...
Interesting, Makheru. But am I wrong to assume that Elijah Muhammad understood his creation stories -- including "The Tribe of Shabazz" -- as literal truths, not as parables?
NOI certainly teaches them as literal truth, correct? I had a Muslim object to me when I described that Yakub story in a newspaper article as "mythology."
Render, I'm curious. What does a Jew do that no other person does?
Two points.
First, Dave, for someone who claims to want to get beyond this rhetoric, this is some Fox News shit. Nuff said.
For dudes who read the Torah that like to cast stones, clean your own house first. Been checking your cheapshot vignettes.
NOT
IMPRESSED
D
First, Dave, for someone who claims to want to get beyond this rhetoric, this is some Fox News shit.
"Fox News shit"? DeAngelo, you cut me to the quick!
This is a historical artifact. When's the last time you saw actual film of Elijah Muhammad dropping science?
UBM: Thanks. I'll keep it clean.
===
“Black Muslim cooperation with Rockwell and the Ku Klux Klan went beyond ideology and rhetoric. There were practical implications. Like his white racist counterparts, Elijah Muhammad believed that interracial sexual relations were morally depraved and genetically destructive, for interracial sex “ruins and destroys a people.” Rhetoric aside, he wanted to establish a truce between racists and his Southern mosques. To this end he sent Malcolm X to Atlanta to accompany Jeremiah X, the local Muslim minister of Atlanta, to a secret meeting with members of the Klan. Both sides discussed race relations. Malcolm described the integration movement as a Jewish conspiracy carried out by black stooges. The parties eventually hammered out the main issue: a nonaggression pact. If the Muslims did not aid the civil rights movement in the South, the mosques would be undisturbed.”
- Claude A. Clegg, An Original Man (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1997), 152-53.
===
While Black churches were burning, Muhammad was making secret deals with the arsonists. He wasn’t just bigoted against Whites and Jews; he was bigoted against Blacks who were not members of his mosques.
In this day and supposedly enlightened age I would hope to be forgiven for expressing a certain amount of astonishment that anybody could look at the history of NOI and not see the endemic bigotry and racism that far outweighs any good. They are no more defendable than the KKK or the JDL.
===
Fisher: That’s easy. Nearly universal persecution. We’re everybody’s favorite target. 5,000 years of it Mr. Fisher and we’re still here. Why does that seem to vex you so?
===
D: I see ya.
First point: Yup it’s Fox, but it’s also on all the other Alphabets and all the major wire services. Face it, it's world wide.
The AFC championship game is underway and they dragged this poor guy in out of the stands to play starting quarterback. He’s getting sacked on running plays and looking like George Plimpton out there.
Eight years of seasoning in the senate, (and cleaning some of the skeletons out of his closet), and BHO would have been unstoppable. Right now he looks like a guy who’s never seen the playbook.
Second point: Specifically?
BULLET
PROOF
GLASS,
R
Eight years of seasoning in the senate, (and cleaning some of the skeletons out of his closet), and BHO would have been unstoppable.
Another reason eight years from now might've been better... some more of those old folks we hear about "who would never vote for a Negro" will have died off. And a generation of 13-year-old white girls now posting their own "Soulja Boy" dance videos on YouTube would be of voting age.
But that horse has left the barn. Obama made his move, and may Yahweh bless him, for surely America will be the better for having gone through this political season, regardless of the end result.
Richard Lewontin:
"The best guess these days is that the reason that people have different hair forms and eye shapes and skin colors, those outward manifestations, is something that Darwin called sexual selection. For some crazy reason which I can't understand, people in Europe liked washed-out looking people and they tended to select them for their mates, and the consequence is the Europeans became washed-out looking. Whereas people in Africa preferred dark people and so they became dark just by selective mating. And it would be exactly those outward manifestations like eye shape and hair shape and skin color that would have that effect.
Nobody can select their mate on the basis of blood group because you don't know what your mate's blood group is. So for those things which couldn't be subject to this kind of visual selection, mating selection, no differentiation occurred."
render...
"Fisher: That’s easy. Nearly universal persecution. We’re everybody’s favorite target. 5,000 years of it Mr. Fisher and we’re still here. Why does that seem to vex you so?"
So the function of a Jew, the thing that a Jew does that no one else does is to have him/herself persecuted and to provide a him/herself as a target for others?
Render...
"While Black churches were burning, Muhammad was making secret deals with the arsonists. He wasn’t just bigoted against Whites and Jews"
Render, how many, if any Jews have been harmed physically by the Nation of Islam?
render...
"Like his white racist counterparts, Elijah Muhammad believed that interracial sexual relations were morally depraved and genetically destructive, for interracial sex “ruins and destroys a people.”
Render, what do the Torah and the Talmud teach about Jews marrying non-Jews?
More concretely. How did "the Jews" manage to survive 5000 years of persecution while constantly intermarrying with all kinds of other folks like there was no tomorrow?
White people haven't evolved yet...they are potential human beings.
Did "render" take a powder?
^ He probably works for a living.
Mills...
He probably works for a living.
LOL
Interesting, Makheru. But am I wrong to assume that Elijah Muhammad understood his creation stories -- including "The Tribe of Shabazz" -- as literal truths, not as parables? NOI certainly teaches them as literal truth, correct?—Mills
You are correct Mr. Mills, but I was responding to what I perceived as your mockery of The Messenger’s Theology. Would you also mock Moses the alleged author of Numbers and Samuel the supposed author of Judges whose writings are also taken literally by millions of people?
^ To be honest... if I had a good enough joke, I certainly would mock Noah's Ark or Adam and Eve... especially their status as literal truth.
UBM:
“Another reason eight years from now might've been better... some more of those old folks we hear about "who would never vote for a Negro" will have died off. And a generation of 13-year-old white girls now posting their own "Soulja Boy" dance videos on YouTube would be of voting age.”
R – Absolutely no doubt.
“But that horse has left the barn. Obama made his move, and may Yahweh bless him, for surely America will be the better for having gone through this political season, regardless of the end result.”
R – Indeed. One lost campaign is not necessarily the end of a career, just as the death of WMUC was not the end of U of M radio. Obama will be most likely return for another campaign, wiser for his early attempt and with a cleaner closet. The man has oratorical skills and serious presence. After eight years of Arkansas Bubba and eight years of Square-Knot Texas Tongue, America has a crying need for skills like that from our political leaders.
=
Fisher:
“So the function of a Jew, the thing that a Jew does that no one else does is to have him/herself persecuted and to provide a him/herself as a target for others?”
R – I see you’re still answering some questions with questions and ignoring other questions. That’s a fairly dishonest tactic and one I’m not likely to entertain for much longer. It means you either don’t know the answer or you’re not willing to give the answer for reasons unspoken. I could direct you to any number of Jewish theological websites, but I suspect you already know the answers to your own dishonest questions.
R – We did not collectively ask for nor seek this awful burden any more than Blacks asked for their 400 years of slavery and repression. Who are you to imply otherwise?
=
Fisher:
“Render, how many, if any Jews have been harmed physically by the Nation of Islam?”
R- Mr. Fisher, had you considered composing your responses in an off-line editor program? It might save you some of those embarrassing deletions, and second thought posts. Google cache and the wayback machine are not your friends.
R - I don’t think anybody’s ever done a breakdown of the religions of the dozens, possibly hundreds of murders committed in the name of NOI or by its active members (Zebra), perhaps because it’s quite irrelevant to the documented fact.
R – I saw Khalid Abdul Muhammed speak in Baltimore. I know who he was talking about. I know blood libel when I hear it.
=
Fisher:
“Render, what do the Torah and the Talmud teach about Jews marrying non-Jews?
More concretely. How did "the Jews" manage to survive 5000 years of persecution while constantly intermarrying with all kinds of other folks like there was no tomorrow?”
R – (Pardon me while I borrow from The Gipper), there you go again…
R -The Torah and the Talmud teach conflicting views on the matter, but you already knew that, didn’t you Mr. Fisher? Are you seriously equating the Torah and the Talmud both with the lunatic ravings of Elijah Mohammad playing Fards game? If Calypso Louie hadn’t come along that game would have run its logical course long ago.
R -We’ve been around this corner once before Mr. Fisher Judaism is a religion, not a race. We survive because for all the things we’re supposed to be good at, surviving is the one thing most of us do well. We survive because we’re members of the human race Mr. Fisher, just like you.
R –We endure.
R -I’m at the furthest edge of Reform possible Mr. Fisher, does that help? NOI isn’t a religion, nor is it a cult. It’s a scam, with franchises, just like the White Nationalists it mostly resembles. Having said that, allow me to point out that no game profits without some element of truth to it.
=
SJ:
“White people haven't evolved yet...they are potential human beings.”
R – Feel free to take advantage of an open registration period at LGF. We’ll set up a pool to see how long your account survives spewing uncivilized feces like that.
=
UBM:
“He probably works for a living.”
R – Well, yeah. And then some, I got bills, ya’know? This controlling the entire world shtick is a full time deal. Besides, stockpiling military grade ammo ain’t cheap these days.
R – Two jobs and too many hobbies. And yourself, we’re waiting on the next Wire you know?
KOH
I
NOR,
R
render...
"We did not collectively ask for nor seek this awful burden any more than Blacks asked for their 400 years of slavery and repression. Who are you to imply otherwise?"
Lemme see. I asked you what a Jew does that no one else does(because why be a Jew if anyone else does what a Jew does, right? and you answered thusly: "Nearly universal persecution. We’re everybody’s favorite target. 5,000 years of it..."
and you put you that response on me? How is that logical? Are you meshugana?
"The Torah and the Talmud teach conflicting views on the matter, but you already knew that, didn’t you Mr. Fisher? Are you seriously equating the Torah and the Talmud both with the lunatic ravings of Elijah Mohammad playing Fards game?"
I didn't equate anything. I asked you a simple question. Having looked it up, obviously the answer is that Jews are prohibited by Mosaic law from intermarrying with non-Jews. Clearly as well, Jews over the "Last 5000 years" pursued a conscious survival strategy of marrying other Jews rather than non-Jews. Otherwise there wouldn't be any around. Yes?
Unless, of course, you subscribe to the notion that the vast majority of European Jews are Khazar converts and have no connection to the Hebrews of ancient Judea
Now, by your standards as advanced here, is the Mosaic law that discourages Jews from marrying non-Jews biggoted or is it not?
And if not. Why then is the NOI's religious precept any less valid then yours? Is Judaism superior to any other religion/myth?
If no, why are you up in arms about someone not wanting to marry outside of their religion/myth? If yes, does that mean that you subscribe to a superior belief?
And if that is so, does that make you superior?
Render...
"I don’t think anybody’s ever done a breakdown of the religions of the dozens, possibly hundreds of murders committed in the name of NOI or by its active members (Zebra), perhaps because it’s quite irrelevant to the documented fact."
Well, if you can't prove an active deliberate policy on behalf of the NOI of harming any Jewish people, you ought to stop talking like the NOI ever pursued a policy of harming Jewish people.
"Black" people, of any persuasion, religious or otherwise, leaders or followers, have never been a threat to the white folks who classify themselves as Jews. And you know it.
SJ:
“White people haven't evolved yet...they are potential human beings.”
Render: I'm pretty sure SJ was being dryly ironic.
"Black" people, of any persuasion, religious or otherwise... have never been a threat to the white folks who classify themselves as Jews. And you know it.
*COUGH* (Yankel Rosenbaum) *COUGH*...
Taking this completely out of the realm of depth and intellect, what's amazing about his video is how accurate was the portrayal by AlFreeman, Jr. of Elijah Muhammad in the movie, Malcolm X.
When i first saw that movie I was wondering what the hell kind of accent Freeman was trying to achieve. The reality is even weirder.
Mills...
"*COUGH* (Yankel Rosenbaum) *COUGH*..."
Well, if Yankel Rosenbaum, as tragic as that murder was, is the only person you can come up with, we're doing pretty good. Compared to the real anti-Semites (what's a Semite anyhow?). Don't you think so? I'm talking about Jewish people as a people. Ain't no black folks gonna commit genocide against the white folks who classify themselves as Jews. And you know it, too, David.
... what's amazing about his video is how accurate was the portrayal by AlFreeman, Jr. of Elijah Muhammad in the movie, Malcolm X.
Absolutely!
UBM: You got mail...
===
Yankel Rosenbaum is on Sharptons list.
===
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oEhtQvvRwE
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnists/wickham/2001-02-19-wickham.htm
"Never will I say I am not an anti-Semite," Muhammad told an audience in Baltimore in February 1998. "Whatever he (the Jew) is, goddamn it, I'm against him. I pray for my enemy all the time. I pray that God will kill my enemy and take him off the face of the planet Earth."
===
ETERNAL,
R
Well, Render, you ain't scared of Khallid Muhammad and his followers' bombastic rhetoric now, are you?
Plus, how many Jews have these folks killed or harmed?
Lastly, in your opinion, why are they saying what they are saying?
"R – Feel free to take advantage of an open registration period at LGF. We’ll set up a pool to see how long your account survives spewing uncivilized feces like that."
It was a joke...someone prominent said those words though (hint: he is related to this topic).
Btw, I hope by "LGF" you aren't talking about Little Green Footballs. That site is a stain on the web...I used to visit it a few years ago but the amount of anti-Muslim and anti-Arab rhetoric was disgusting.
Fisher:
“Lemme see. I asked you what a Jew does that no one else does(because why be a Jew if anyone else does what a Jew does, right? and you answered thusly: "Nearly universal persecution. We’re everybody’s favorite target. 5,000 years of it..."
“and you put you that response on me? How is that logical? Are you meshugana?”
R – I’m not a Rabbi Mr. Fisher. Like I said if you really want a more detailed answer I’ll be glad to direct you to the relevant theological websites. I’m not Spock either, but I fail to see the illogic in my statement. Explain please. The only other person that’s ever asked me if I was meshugana was my ex-wife. She was wrong too.
=
“I didn't equate anything. I asked you a simple question. Having looked it up, obviously the answer is that Jews are prohibited by Mosaic law from intermarrying with non-Jews. Clearly as well, Jews over the "Last 5000 years" pursued a conscious survival strategy of marrying other Jews rather than non-Jews. Otherwise there wouldn't be any around. Yes?”
R – If not for equation, why introduce the question at all? You had to look it up? Then I may owe you a retraction of my dishonest debater comments. I was under the impression that you were more informed than that about the subjects you’re debating. There are as many interpretations of Mosaic Law as there are Rabbis. You appear to have stumbled upon the one of the more Orthodox versions.
=
“Unless, of course, you subscribe to the notion that the vast majority of European Jews are Khazar converts and have no connection to the Hebrews of ancient Judea”
R – Some of the more extreme Orthodox versions of Judaism do exactly that. I don’t. Some of the more extremist Orthodox versions of Judaism don’t consider me to be Jewish, yet all of the anti-Semitic groups of the world do. Riddle me that Mr. Fisher.
“Now, by your standards as advanced here, is the Mosaic law that discourages Jews from marrying non-Jews biggoted or is it not?”
R – In it’s old world form, absolutely. However the Orthodox conversion loophole and Reform Judaism render your straw man quite moot.
“And if that is so, does that make you superior?”
R – I believe the goal is equality Mr. Fisher, not superiority. No more, no less. Many times throughout history collective Judaism has settled for base survival in the face of collective extermination. No more, never again.
=
“Well, if you can't prove an active deliberate policy on behalf of the NOI of harming any Jewish people, you ought to stop talking like the NOI ever pursued a policy of harming Jewish people.”
R – The spoken and written words of NOI/NBPP leadership confirm that very policy. The blood libel is hardly an original tactic of incitement.
"Black" people, of any persuasion, religious or otherwise, leaders or followers, have never been a threat to the white folks who classify themselves as Jews. And you know it.”
R – Collectively of course not. Individually and amongst certain aforementioned “theological” groups, it’s beyond any shadow of a doubt. Their own words condemn them.
=
“Well, Render, you ain't scared of Khallid Muhammad and his followers' bombastic rhetoric now, are you?”
R – Scared? Not hardly. Forewarned is forarmed. Besides, it would appear as though God already answered Khallid Muhammad with a lightning bolt to the head.
“Plus, how many Jews have these folks killed or harmed?”
R – Do you have an up to date NBPP membership list that I can run through NCIC? In the meantime, open incitement to murder is a crime and does not fall under the protections of free speech. Maybe you can tell me why that law isn’t being enforced with regards the very public statements of various NOI/NBPP leaders and the various other Black “ministers” and leaders that insist on allying themselves with such.
“Lastly, in your opinion, why are they saying what they are saying?”
R – I asked that very question of my father when I was a little boy. His answer was, “It doesn’t matter why all that matters is they do.”
=
SJ:
“It was a joke...someone prominent said those words though (hint: he is related to this topic).”
R – Yeah, I know who said it. Given the context and the lack of proper attribution I hope you’ll forgive me the misunderstanding and lack of amusement.
“Btw, I hope by "LGF" you aren't talking about Little Green Footballs. That site is a stain on the web...I used to visit it a few years ago but the amount of anti-Muslim and anti-Arab rhetoric was disgusting.”
R – Why of course I am. We ran the screamers, ranters, and kill-em-all’s out a long time ago. We still get the occasional trolls, (what blog doesn’t?), but they don’t last long in Charles’s house. The only Muslims we’re anti about are the violent extremists and I’m quite certain we’ve never been anti-Arab. We’re anti to violent extremists of all shades and persuasions. It’s just that at this era in history (post 1979) the vast majority of violent extremists in the world are Muslim, like it or not.
WELCOME
TO
NOW,
R
render...
"I’m not a Rabbi Mr. Fisher. Like I said if you really want a more detailed answer I’ll be glad to direct you to the relevant theological websites"
Render, I didn't ask you what other people who classify themselves as Jews say what you do or what you are, I asked you about you.
I think that makes sense.
You say that you are a Jew. I ask you what it is that a Jew does that no one else does. Given that you say you are a Jew, you should know. But you say you don't know what a Jew does that no one else does. So you don't know what a Jew is? So how do you know that you are a Jew? Are you gonna have to look up a bunch of websites to figure out who you are?
"Some of the more extremist Orthodox versions of Judaism don’t consider me to be Jewish, yet all of the anti-Semitic groups of the world do."
So you are a Jew because non-Jews define you as a Jew? Like this?
How would they know you are a Jew? Do you have different blood from anyone else? Do you have a receding hairline? A hooked nose? A flat head? Do you have Dumbo ears? Is your gaze cunning an conniving? Do you refuse to look anyone straight in the eyes? Do you gesticulate wildly? Wave you hands about? Do you have a waddling gait? Do you crawl before the gentiles, but once the gentiles' attention relaxes you jump at their throats?
Apparently that is the "anti-semitic" definition of a Jew.
Since you don't know what a Jew does that no one else does, and "all of the anti-Semitic groups of the world" seem to know, those things then must be the things that you, as a Jew, do that no one else does.
By the way. Since you just said that you are a Semite. What is it that a Semite does that no one else does?
"“Now, by your standards as advanced here, is the Mosaic law that discourages Jews from marrying non-Jews biggoted or is it not?”
R – In it’s old world form, absolutely. However the Orthodox conversion loophole and Reform Judaism render your straw man quite moot."
Are you saying that in order to marry an orthodox Jew, a non-Jew must convert to Judaism?
If so, isn't that a Jew marrying a (newly-minted) Jew? Doesn't sound like intermarriage to me.
How does reform Judaism handle this?
fisher said
"You say that you are a Jew. I ask you what it is that a Jew does that no one else does. Given that you say you are a Jew, you should know. But you say you don't know what a Jew does that no one else does. So you don't know what a Jew is? So how do you know that you are a Jew? Are you gonna have to look up a bunch of websites to figure out who you are?"
translation...
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.
LOL
Mr. Fisher…
“Render, I didn't ask you what other people who classify themselves as Jews say what you do or what you are, I asked you about you.”
“I think that makes sense.”
R – Ah so you actually were personalizing the question, as opposed to your usual pattern of generalization. We’ll get back to that in a minute…
=
“You say that you are a Jew. I ask you what it is that a Jew does that no one else does. Given that you say you are a Jew, you should know. But you say you don't know what a Jew does that no one else does. So you don't know what a Jew is? So how do you know that you are a Jew? Are you gonna have to look up a bunch of websites to figure out who you are?”
R – That I do, and you’re back to generalizations. I neither said, nor wrote that “I don’t know what a Jew does that no one else does.” You wrote that. Those are your words Mr. Fisher, as that is your written conclusion. I know that I am a Jew because my parents raised me as such, like their parents before them and so on and so on.
“So you are a Jew because non-Jews define you as a Jew? Like this?”
R – It’s called the Nuremberg Parallel to the Law of Return. In a nutshell it means that anybody who is persecuted as a Jew has the right of Israeli citizenship.
“How would they know you are a Jew? Do you have different blood from anyone else? Do you have a receding hairline? A hooked nose? A flat head? Do you have Dumbo ears? Is your gaze cunning an conniving? Do you refuse to look anyone straight in the eyes? Do you gesticulate wildly? Wave you hands about? Do you have a waddling gait? Do you crawl before the gentiles, but once the gentiles' attention relaxes you jump at their throats?”
“Apparently that is the "anti-semitic" definition of a Jew.”
R – Some of those descriptions do in fact spill from the mouths of bigots like David Duke and Louis Farrakhan. But some of those descriptions also cover Obama as well.
“Since you don't know what a Jew does that no one else does, and "all of the anti-Semitic groups of the world" seem to know, those things then must be the things that you, as a Jew, do that no one else does.”
R – In as much as I am capable of given my own limited religious instruction, I have answered your questions as best as I am capable of. What’s your excuse for believing what you wrote above?
“By the way. Since you just said that you are a Semite. What is it that a Semite does that no one else does?”
R – My words stand as they are written. Allow me to borrow from Wiki…
[Antisemitism (alternatively spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism, also known as judeophobia) is prejudice and hostility toward Jews as a religious, racial, or ethnic group. While the term's etymology indicates that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, since its creation it has been used exclusively to refer to hostility towards Jews.
Antisemitism may be manifested in many ways, ranging from individual expressions of hatred and discrimination against individual Jews to organized violent attacks by mobs or even state police or military attacks on entire Jewish communities. Extreme instances of persecution include the German Crusade of 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the expulsion from Portugal in 1497, various pogroms, and the most infamous, the Holocaust under Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany.]
R – I’d prefer to think you’re merely under educated on the matter, rather than wilfully a bigot. But you will have to look in the mirror to determine the truth of that.
“Now, by your standards as advanced here, is the Mosaic law that discourages Jews from marrying non-Jews biggoted or is it not?”
R – I’ve already answered that Mr. Fisher.
“Are you saying that in order to marry an orthodox Jew, a non-Jew must convert to Judaism?”
R – Some branches of Orthodox Judaism don’t even allow for conversion.
“If so, isn't that a Jew marrying a (newly-minted) Jew? Doesn't sound like intermarriage to me.”
R – You seem to be missing a salient point Mr. Fisher. Judaism is a RELIGION, not a race. The Beta Israel are Black Mr. Fisher, maybe even darker of skin then you. Do you question their Judaism as well?
“How does reform Judaism handle this?”
R – Some (most) branches of Reform Judaism do require the matrilineal conversion prior to marriage. Some (a few) do not. The Israeli Law of Return has been amended several times to take this into account.
=
The time has come to turn this around Mr. Fisher.
What makes you a Black man?
Do you hate your own mother?
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Nation of Islam?
Are you aware that there are Islamic Fatwas that deny that NOI is Islamic?
Are you aware that mainstream Islam insists that Calypso Louis is not a Muslim?
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/4222/noi.html
http://www.muhajabah.com/noi.htm
I’m done with you Mr. Fisher. Educate yourself. When you find the path to civilization and the rest of the human race, look me up and I will walk beside you. Until then wallow in your own self-hatred.
UNTIL
MEGIDDO,
R
"The white people that classify themselves as 'Jews'"
Hahaha What an ignorant assertion. There are black Jews, and mestizo Jews.
Not all Jews are white, as Judaism is NOT a race, but a religion.
Some religious sects are racists, in that they will take followers of ONLY one race.
That's not the case with Judaism.
Miguel.
It is to laugh.
I MADE WRIGHT THAT COLOR
He is my Golem
MWAHAHAHAHA
~ The Zionist Hobby Center
Render, you still have not answered what it is that a Jew does that no one else does.
You've now told us you were raised as a Jew by your parents who are Jews. But that doesn't answer my question. It appears that you are not capable of answering that question.
Maybe there is no such person as a Jew then?
Neither are you apparently capable of answering what it is that a Semite does that no one else does. You've told us instead about anti-Semitism, which tell us what anti-Semites do that no one else does.
No, I do not hate my mother.
No, I've never been a member of the NOI.
I'm aware that the so-called Ethiopian Jews tend to have darker skin than other Jews that originated in Europe. However, I didn't ask you about skin color. I asked what is it that a Jew does that no one else does. I mean there must be some reason that warrants that a person be given a certain label. And that logically must be based on what that person does. Else why give them a special label?
What makes me "black"?
Simple. I've been classified as "black" by the people who classify themselves as "white". Functionally "black" means a victim of racism/white supremacy. but you ought to know that, Render.
You can go on trying to insult people who ask you simple questions all day long, render, but that ain't gonna stop the questions.
Lemme as you this then. What is it that white racists do that no one else does?
Oh, sorry, I forgot to answer your other questions.
Yes, I am aware that there have been fatwa's issues that say that the NOI does not practice "true" Islam.
What is "mainstream" Islam? I'm sure though that plenty of Muslims doesn't think that Min. Farrakhan is a Muslim.
I'm not a Muslim, by the way. So it really doesn't concern me.
"I’d prefer to think you’re merely under educated on the matter, rather than wilfully a bigot."
What, render, in my questioning indicates that I am a bigot?
alright, mr. fisher. why don't you use your obviously superior intellect and enlighten the rest of us rubes on what it is that you believe a Jew does that no one else does?
kirls...
"alright, mr. fisher. why don't you use your obviously superior intellect and enlighten the rest of us rubes on what it is that you believe a Jew does that no one else does?"
I honestly have no idea. Not being a Jew I can't tell you, and everybody who told me they are a Jew hasn't told me yet either. All I ever got was the run-around like render is giving me. Same with "Semite". In fact. Lot's of people who tell me they are Jews, when I ask them whether they are Semites they usually say "no". Weird, eh?
fisher said
"I honestly have no idea. Not being a Jew I can't tell you, and everybody who told me they are a Jew hasn't told me yet either. All I ever got was the run-around like render is giving me. Same with "Semite". In fact. Lot's of people who tell me they are Jews, when I ask them whether they are Semites they usually say "no". Weird, eh?"
no. why are you so obsessed with the topic? thinking of converting?
Converting to what, kirls? Logically speaking I can't have a desire to convert to something I must suspect doesn't exist.
Kirls. Do you know what it is that a jew does that no one else does?
answer my questions first. why are obsessed with the question "what does a jew do that no one else does?"
kirls...
"answer my questions first. why are obsessed with the question 'what does a jew do that no one else does?'"
I wouldn't call it obsessed. Just curious.
We usually hear this phrase: Blacks, whites, and Jews. Or Whites, non-whites, and Jews.
Now, I kinda figured out what whites do and non-whites do that makes them whites and non-whites. But if Jews are neither whites or non-whites, what are they? What does a Jew do that no one else, non-white or white, does?
fischer said
"Now, I kinda figured out what whites do and non-whites do that makes them whites and non-whites."
and just what is that? what do whites do that make them white? what do blacks to that makes them black? what do those of mixed race do that make them ... both?
I answered your previous question kirls, so it's your turn. Come on now. What does a Jew do that no one else does?
I see, neither render nor kirls apparently have an answer. Interesting. Nu?
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