Friday, December 14, 2007

Pragmatic political question of the day...

... addressed to Nulan, Fisher, Submariner, DeAngelo, or anyone else who’s not afraid of uncomfortable questions:

Looks like white folks are getting fed up with the black-on-white mob assaults. What is the proper “black partisan” response?

91 comments:

DeAngelo Starnes said...

Dave, I was beginning you threw your back out debating Nulan, Fisher, and the other fellas.

I don't know where you're coming from on this question. I would expect something like this from a Glenn Beck, Rush, or O'Reilly.

You can't be serious though.

This is some Black-person-as-boogieman bullshit.

This is the kind of story that led to lynching.

And cop shootings with impunity.

I don't know about "black partisan," but the appropriate human response is that wrong is wrong.

A white person is infinitely more safe walking through the 'hood than a brotha/sista would be walking through a trailer park.

Ding!

DeAngelo Starnes said...

I thought they killed JD Williams' character, Bodie, on The Wire last season? I mean, y'all did get nomintated, right?

But seriously folks ...

On-Black violence, regardless of the perpetrator's color, rarely gets reported on the news.

On-white violence? Three muthafuckas got sucker-punched and that's 11 o'clock news. Manhunt and shit.

Like I said, wrong is wrong, and I don't want to come off as an apologist.

But if this is a story, then be fair and report all the shit that happens to all victims of violence.

Otherwise, let the police handle this.

Cuz this is the kind of story that sets a Rosewood in motion.

DeAngelo Starnes said...

Finally, that blog entry was some racist-ass shit, Dave.

Dragon Horse said...

UBM:

All this was predicted. All of it. Everything you see with the black underclass cesspool of bastard producers, barbaric criminal low brows, crack heads, and their mentally ill base offspring has been predicted and been allowed to become worst by black radical communists who took over the black intelligentsia in the late 1960's with their pro-black power Maoist nonsense that did not lift anyone out of anything, just as all black in dictators were going up at a fast click, these negros thought Mao, Stalin, Marx, and all those corrupt negro socialist leaders in Africa who ran their countries into a ditch in the jungle/Savannah had the answer for the black man.

40 years later, we see that answer don't we? Finally the shift is happening, the Pew poll shows that most black people are turning more conservative, not white Southern bible belt conservative, but Booker T Washington, Martin Luther King (pre-black power) conservatives blacks.

We have to purge the remainder of these red doper diaper bastard babies out of the black intelligentsia and get about the business of giving touch love and civilization to the black lower class. That will not happen with negros coming out with every asinine excuse under the sun for why people act barbaric (i.e. critical race theory, stereotype threat) and all that other pseudo-socialist propaganda designed to make blacks dependent on the state and the black poverty pimps in academia and in the churches.

The prediction was right here:

http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/webid-meynihan.htm

Why didn't anyone listen??

Dragon Horse said...

Sorry, here is the link:

http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/
history/webid-meynihan.htm

DeAngelo Starnes said...

dragonhorse, why don't you tell us how you really feel and just say these "nigger muthafuckin' thugs?" Cuz that was what all that verbiage added up to.

Undercover Black Man said...

I would expect something like this from a Glenn Beck, Rush, or O'Reilly.

DeAngelo, dude... they go easy on black crime. They hardly ever talk about it. What happens when they stop being polite?

Meanwhile, the NAACP declared a “State of Emergency” a couple months back... talkin’ ’bout “violence and overly aggressive prosecution against African American youth by law enforcement officials symbolized by the boot camp beating death of Martin Lee Anderson, the assault of Shelwanda Riley by a police officer and countless other recent dehumanizing attacks has led the NAACP to declare a ‘State of Emergency’ that requires immediate action by local and state authorities as well as the U.S. Department of Justice and the U.S. Congress.”

But somehow, black criminality isn’t viewed as an “emergency,” I guess. Not by the NAACP.

And yet W.E.B. Du Bois was forthrightly addressing the problem of black crime 100 years ago!

Undercover Black Man said...

DeAngelo wrote: "A white person is infinitely more safe walking through the 'hood than a brotha/sista would be walking through a trailer park."

Wait... didn't you go to Howard? Did you live on campus? I remember visiting a Howard dorm 15 years ago, and in the lobby they had a tote-board of student muggings.

On the real side, DeAngelo, weren't Howard students prime targets? Of kids who looked just like those in the bus photos? Wasn't crime a daily fact of life?

SJ said...

"A white person is infinitely more safe walking through the 'hood than a brotha/sista would be walking through a trailer park."

I really doubt that.

What I do find funny is how people like Sharpton would jump on the Jena 6 case, but when black thugs jump on innocent white people they are silent.

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Also, SJ, this recent phenomenon of "black partisans" howling about nooses... like that was terrorism worthy of FBI investigations.

If a noose is terrorism, what's an actual ass-whippin'? Ask the white citizens of Baltimore if they feel a little "terrorized" right about now...

SJ said...

Easy there dragon horse. I don't see what being socialist has anything to do with this. I don't see how moving towards a completely capitalistic society would fix anything.

DeAngelo Starnes said...

Dave, HU students did get mugged. And there was a tension between the block-boys and freshman on campus (just the freshman dudes because they were new meat). But crime was not a daily part of life when I was there. That's mythology.

But that wasn't my point.

Crime is crime, and I don't condone or apologize for it.

My point was demonization.

Because bruhs get beat down by other bruhs all the time. And it ain't on the 11 o'clock news.

My point was that on-Black crime is not considered an emergency.

And it seems that when the victim is white and the perpetrator nonwhite, there's a manhunt.

I watched the news video, Dave. That was some manhunt shit.

Now, if some sistas had gotten beat down like that, would it have made the 11 o'clock news?

I stand by the 'hood v. trailer park statement. But in fairness, let's just say it ain't safe to walk in an unsafe neighborhood regardless of color.

DeAngelo Starnes said...

sj, you don't need a Sharpton when you got the 11 o'clock news.

You need a Sharpton when the 11 o'clock news ignores what's happening.

Dave, on the noose comment. You are not serious, are you?

A noose symbolizes lynching. You talk about mobs. I'm sure you've seen photos of the aftermath of lynchings. What do you see in many of them? HUNDREDS of white people standing under bruhs swinging from trees.

You cannot compare these beatdowns to nooses.

And if the white folks in Baltimore feel "terrorized" by these incidents, welcome to Black life in America.

Again, I am not apologizing for what these people have done. It was fucked up. But let's not stereotype and demonize because that's dangerous.

SJ said...

My point about Sharpton was not about whether the media was ignoring a crime or not, it was about speaking out against such crimes. I mean, this is clearly a racially-motivated incident, yet Sharpton is silent. Why? He hogged the media spotlight when, a radio personality called some black women nappy-headed hos, why not do the right thing here? This is exactly why it's hard for non-black folk to take people like Sharpton seriously.

odocoileus said...

UBM,

the answer is simple. You will quit screenwriting and journalism and dedicate yourself to community outreach. Help the poorest of the poor.

Them cats in Nickerson Gardens need role models, so you should abandon your current digs and move into the projects ASAP. (I know you saw the LA Weekly story, it's on the same site as Nikke Finke).

I know you've got a pretty good career going, but once white folks really get fed up, they're going to kick educated Negroes out of their jobs and houses and send them back to the ghetto. Which will be walled in like a Bantustan. The govt will truck in surplus cheese and powdered milk.

I'll be watching all this on TV from someplace else. Namibia looks pretty attractive, wide open spaces, beaches, ocean. I'll need enough money for an estate with armed guards, so I better sell something pretty quick.

Seriously, the black poor quit caring about what respectable Negroes think a long time ago. They don't care what Bill Cosby thinks. They assault and kill each other in astronomical numbers. Why would you expect them to draw the line at white folks?

The NAACP thinks that the outrageous black crime rates really don't concern them. Because it's generally not their children, friends or neighbors robbing and killing, they figure it has no connection to them.

UBM, you feel pretty much the same way. You see it as "their" problem. What if your white friends, neighbors, and coworkers decided black men in general, including you, were just too dangerous to have around? Can't have you on set, or in the writers room, or seat you for lunch at the Ivy?

Do you have a personal stake in all this? If so, what do you propose to do? Clearly, ghetto thugs are not going to stop because you ask them to. How would you make them stop?

odocoileus said...

Weird, but I think you'll appreciate it:

I surfed over to Fred Reed's site to read his commentary on the unfortunate events in Balmer.

One of the ads was for that Ohio Players album, Fire, the one with the light skinned sister draped in a fire hose and nothing else.

Hilarious.

odocoileus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeAngelo Starnes said...

sj, good point re: Sharpton.

On the other hand, he speaks for the unspoken for. And the largely ignored.

And when there's some outrageous racial crime that goes down, he microphones it.

And even when he does, it still gets ignored.

Not because what he's saying is untrue. But because Black life doesn't carry the same value in many eyes.

I think you made a valid point though. If the victims were Black and the perpetrators white, he would have made damn sure it got on the 11 o'clock news.

In this instance, you didn't need a Sharpton to do that. It just happened.

And I'd like to know why there isn't the same kind of concern and outrage when it comes to on-Black violence?

Michael Fisher said...

deangelo...

"Crime is crime, and I don't condone or apologize for it."

No such thing as "crime is crime" in the context of the System of Racism/White Supremacy.

1. The behavior was incorrect.

2. It was stupid.

Now, did the "white" persons personally do anything to the "black" kids? Sure. They are part of the system that makes and keeps these kids "black".

Why was the behavior incorrect?

Because in this particular context it doesn't do anything to either ameliorate, or prevent an attack of white supremacists upon non-whites, and thus did nothing to promote justice.

Why was it stupid?

Because in this particular context it doesn't do anything to either ameliorate, or prevent an attack of white supremacists upon non-whites, and thus did nothing to promote justice.

Plus they got Nigger Catchers, both "white" and "black" on they ass now.

DeAngelo Starnes said...

fisher,

understood.

Thordaddy said...

michael fisher,

It could be assumed that the "white supremacy" system is/was not evenly spread throughout the country in terms of its real life impact on blacks. Hence, the environment that these black thugs "evolved" in was in some degree under your notion of a white supremacist system (your theory), but you fail to articulate to what extent?

I would assume that these black punks lived in an environment that was almost completely devoid of white supremacy or thinking along those lines compared to many other environments that may be found in America?

Does such a fact point to genetic causation for these depredations or are environmental factors that have almost nothing to do with real palpable white supremacy to blame?

Render said...

I've been enjoying 90% of what I've read here, but kept my fingers still because most of the discussions are way outside of my fields of reference...

===

DeAngelo - That all depends on which Maryland 'hood you're speaking of.

This skinny little Jew can walk through Bacontown/East Laurel or the trailer parks of Maryland City/Howard County at 3am with nary an issue.

Anacostia/SE DC or West Bmore after dark are pretty much out of the question though. I might as well be wearing a bullseye t-shirt and carrying a sign that says "free money - rob me."

That's not a "feeling," it's based on personal experiences growing up Jewish here in PG County, Maryland.

From my point of view - What we see in the "news" is massive over-reporting of any inter-racial crime, in either direction. With an over-emphasis on the racial aspect. White-on-White or Black-on-Black just doesn't sell advertising space.

Desegregation did two things for me. One was to double the number of people in school, (Bethune Jr/Fairmont/Ft Meade Sr for you Marylanders), who wanted to kick my ass for not having a Christmas tree. Thing two was to double the number of people who were willing to be my friends regardless of skin color or religion and to seriously expand my musical horizons.

I guess that's three things...

===

B-mores police force is a wreck and has been for years, (bring back Ed Norris - at least he was an honest crook). It hasn't been all that long ago that they were arresting white kids outside of the baseball stadium for being in the wrong neighborhood, after a game.

===

Now before I dropped in to post this, I just wasted about three hours digitally chopping up a bunch of neo-nazi's and their klanbake butt buddies on another forum and it's way past my bedtime. So I'm gonna cut this off before I remember what my end point was going to be...

ZZZZ,
R

DeAngelo Starnes said...

Dave I have one more beef with this post.

The news feed didn't show the individuals whose pictures you posted committing a crime.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall the victims identifying these individuals as committing the crimes they were victims of.

But you have their pictures posted on the blog as if they are guilty of those crimes.

Now, if I'm JD Williams and I have a spot in Baltimore, I'm nervous than a muthafucka cuz he closely resembles the brotha in the lower right hand corner.

And if I'm any brotha in the vicinity who looks like any of these cats, I'm probably down at the station getting tortured.

What you did was inflammatory and points to the problem of stereotyping demonization.

Rosewood like a muthafucka.

Ding!

DeAngelo Starnes said...

render, my earlier post,

"But in fairness, let's just say it ain't safe to walk in an unsafe neighborhood regardless of color."

'Nuff said.

Michael Fisher said...

thordaddy...

"I would assume that these black punks lived in an environment that was almost completely devoid of white supremacy

You're the father of the Norse God of Thunder? You are Odin?

In that case, answer your question yourself.

Michael Fisher said...

render...

What is "Jewish"?

Are Jewish people "white" people?

Render said...

#@#**@ insomnia...

===

DeAngelo: Point made and understood. I missed that in skimming.

===

Now I remember what I forgot at the end of my last post...

Al Sharpton. As if the Tawana Brawley case wasn't bad enough, Al's mouth got some Jews lynched in Crown Heights '91. And then there was that whole Sharpton/Cindy Sheehan/Stormfront love fest in the Crawford ditch '05.

That's the kind of feces that sticks to a mans shoe for decades.

===

Oh man where's my sleepy pills?

GONE
HUNTIN,
R

Render said...

Michael...

Judaism is a religion, not a race. (noting the Ethiopean Jews)

Bigotry is bigotry, regardless of race or religion.

And as I pointed out to UBM a few days ago, in my world race bigotry and religious bigotry are often found in the same head.

Is my religion going to be a problem for you?

PROMISED
LAND,
R

Thordaddy said...

michael fisher,

In other words, you don't care about causation in this case because...? It's justified...? It's moral...? They take all your polemic to heart and then act as you forsee?

Render said...

I’m detecting a VFW in the Force.

Almost as if something…

ETCH
A
SCETCH,
R

odocoileus said...

Of course, black men are boogie men.

In DC, Balmer, and anywhere in the South, the person who mugs you is almost always going to be a black man.

Just like here in So Cal, the person who mugs you is almost always going to be a Mexican.

I don't know about y'all, but when I see a bunch of young Latinos heading my way, I cross the street.

Now if Darius Truly had had enough time to cross the street, he might still be available for some auditions.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/nov/02/memphis-actor-killed-in-la/


(In case anyone is wondering, I know the hood where he was killed. It was Latino gangbangers who offed him. They're under standing orders from la Emme to kill black people at random when the get the chance. Good times.)

cnulan said...

In the bigger scheme of things a very minor distraction indeed.....,

submariner said...

Mr. Mills, the appropriate black partisan response is to seek justice while never forgetting that the alleged perpetrators are humans and citizens. We should make a distinction between a person targeted by a violent group and a member of a group targeted for violence. Laws against bias or hate crimes apply to the latter. Such offenders are relatively peaceful or law abiding until a member of the targeted group is in their sights. Then it's on.

This crime, and the similar one committed about two weeks ago, has the markings of a violent group who just happened upon convenient white targets. But make no mistake, a vulnerable black person would have met the same fate. Your colleague, George Pelecanos, has written fairly well about this in his crime novel featuring Derek Strange's white partner, Terry, who was killed when he defiantly crossed a gang of black youths. You, yourself, have received much acclaim for poignantly and accurately portyraying how such values are inculcated.

Moving from the particulars of this case to the general, we must tread cautiously. There are distinct narratives in America, your infamous Giant Negro sightings come to mind, that dovetail nicely with the current events. Crime, when it occurs in a sequestered poor community of color, is thought to be endemic to blacks. When the spillover affects whites it arouses a forceful reponse. The Central Park jogger case is an example of how wrong things can go when we rush to judgement.

dez said...

Just like here in So Cal, the person who mugs you is almost always going to be a Mexican.

I don't know about y'all, but when I see a bunch of young Latinos heading my way, I cross the street.


Nice.

Pendejo.

Michael Fisher said...

render...

"This skinny little Jew can walk through Bacontown/East Laurel or the trailer parks of Maryland City/Howard County at 3am with nary an issue.

Anacostia/SE DC or West Bmore after dark are pretty much out of the question though. I might as well be wearing a bullseye t-shirt and carrying a sign that says "free money - rob me.
"

Render, if you would answer this question, please. While walking through these neighborhoods, how did people identify you as a Jew?

SJ said...

DeAngelo, you are right. It is pretty obvious that on-black crime is rarely reported or cared about. The majority is not just interested in that news. And as much as I complain about Sharpton I know a lot of black people who say they respect him for speaking out on their behalf.

Murder rates for cities like Detroit and Baltimore were between 250-350 last year if I'm not mistaken. How many of the victims (and perpetrators) do you think were black?

And I think you are right about the "boogeyman". This will make people more afraid of young, black men.

Michael Fisher said...

submariner...

"But make no mistake, a vulnerable black person would have met the same fate."

Which same fate? The fate of being attacked because the vulnerable black person is white?

Submariner, I understand what you are trying to say and do, however, we can not deal with this issue in a problem-solving manner by diversion.

Michael Fisher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael Fisher said...

God Of All White People...

"In other words, you don't care about causation in this case because...? It's justified...? It's moral...? They take all your polemic to heart and then act as you forsee?"

Who says I don't care about causation?

But let me ask you this. Was the attack by black people on white people justified?

If yes, why?

If no, why not?

Dragon Horse said...

DeAngelo Starnes:

You don't want my solution.

You aren't ready. I believe we need radical action to remove the cancer from the lower class, so the lower class can grow and be productive.

I don't give a damn about the ghetto personally, just as Donald Trump and Lindsay Lohan don't give a damn about their Scot-Irish white trash cousins living foul around the nation and how Giuliani ain't doing not "Italian American Outreach" Long Island and Staten Island.


My solution is simple.

Population control.

Less bastards born and allowed to be raised by barbaric low brow parents the less crime there will be in the black community (I'm speaking specifically about blacks here due to the topic, but I would apply it to all races equally).

It really is simple.

1)We should encourage abortion for low class people (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever).

2) No more welfare for women with bastards. If you are not married or have never been married to the father of your children, were not raped (with a police report) you get no public assistance. If the father of your children is not paying child support because you never took them to court...NO WELFARE FOR YOU.

3) Any woman on public assistance of any kind due to poverty has to get a birth control shot on a regular basis or Norplant. If she does not, no welfare. If she does manage to get pregnant on welfare, she will be jailed for defrauding the state and when she gets out any wages she will be garnished until she pays back the state. Any children will be put in foster care.

4) Any man not paying child support will be put in a forced labor program to improve infrastructure in their community where they will be payed (so not slaves, they are paying back the state for supporting their bastard children).

5) All high crime areas in the country under Marshall Law for 2 years minimum. This means curfews, this means identified gang bangers who do not turn themselves in will be shot on site if out after curfew. Drug dealers and any other people involved in criminal acts will be given a chance to stop and be arrested. No chasing anyone, just shoot them. All children must attend school. Any child absent without an excuse more than 2X will go to boot camp and complete their education, no dropping out. Parents will seriously penalized ($2,000 per child who has been tardy without excuse). No firearms allowed in the secured zones either. Drug dealing will be a capital crime, based on the weight found on the person.

Why so harsh?

Living in civilization requires a certain amount of freedom. Freedom comes with responsibility.

Some people are not responsible, therefore the rest of us have to pay to make up the difference. This is not right. Due to the fact some people act like Mongol Hordes and can not live in civilizations we have to have government babysitters passing all types of laws infringing on good citizens rights and getting in our business because of a minority of barbarians.

Some folks can't understand logic and reason. Some folks can't think abstractly. Some folks have no moral compass. All people understand hard labor, all people understand homelessness, all people understand being hungry.

Cut all all benefits to these people and force them to be productive or remove them from society. Even a low level primate can understand this type of base punishment.

6) Give people a choice. Comply with the law, go to prison, or leave the country. I'm talking renouncing citizenship. Give them a life time full of welfare benefits. Let them emigrate to the third world crap hole of their choice, where they can live with barbarians of their liking, like Afghanistan.

It will be much cheaper than wasting money trying to educate them, policing them, imprisoning them, feeding their bastards, etc.

If a white man wants to move to Belarus, and they will take him, let him go. If a black man wants to go to Angola or Togo, let his black ass go and give him a plane ticket. Better for him to leave and go there (where the locals will no doubt teach his @$$ what oppression and discrimination is) then have his barbaric @$$ in our streets hurting good citizens.

pmsol3 said...

For all of you who think I'm harsh or over the top. Ask yourself one question. In a city like L.A. or Philly, if what I propose was implemented would less poor black people suffer and die in a year or not? Would more poor black people be educated? Would less poor black women be stuck with children they could not afford to be taken care of?

DeAngelo Starnes said...

okay dragonhorse, I'm gonna play along for a minute.

Encouraged abortions for low class people. How would you define "low class"? By income? Place of residence? Manners? And encourage doesn't mean mandatory but your tone of "encouragement" suggests "mandatory.' Regardless, who pays for the abortions?

No welfare for women with bastards. Your rationale seems that unmarried women who have children but are not receiving child support and who may be unemployed will not be entitled to government assistance. But child support is calculated according to income levels of both mother and father and then apportioned accordingly. Additionally, the calculation only deducts a portion of the payer's monthly income. So one may receive child support but still need government assistance. So that won't work. Besides what if the father is unemployed, in jail, or dead?


Women on public assistance must get a birth control shot. A mandatory requirement so the government pays for the shot, which would be a socialized service. Children in foster care - another socialized service on the government's dime.

Any male not paying child support goes into forced labor where the money earned goes back to the state. That's a little too black-and-white. There may be other factors for failure to pay child support. Plus, there are currently ways child support orders are enforced that place less of a burden on the State than what you are proposing. After all, a forced labor program would have to be administered and supervised. That's more people on the government payroll. Even it were privatized, you're still talking about the program being financed by taxpayer dollars.

Martial law (you spelled it wrong, buddy) for high crime areas. That would require increased police presence (police protection is another socialized service). All children have to go to school. Another mandatory requirement which means public schools - another socialized service. And since your theme is eliminating barbarism, which I think your martial law setting is just as barbaric as that which you're claiming to resolve, would that be mandatory subject in school? What exactly would you teach in these schools that are part of your martial law program? More taxpayer money.

Your last solution, comply with law, go to prison, or leave the country. Every U.S. citizen has the choice right now. So what's new about what you proposed?

Seems to me your program costs more than what you think you're saving. And it doesn't make for a better society.

Ding!

Thordaddy said...

michael fisher,

I think these thugs are raised in an environment that promotes, inculcates and justifies violence against whites whether they be white children, white women or white men. Much of that environment and those that act within it are most likely in full agreement with your racial rhetoric. In many ways, you, speaking your "truths" are more than aware of the potential outcome of such beliefs. Yet, you pretend as if this act of violence is just some random event that can tell us nothing more than this being a mere act of violence among many other acts of violence.

Even that silly black female mayor is trying to sell the idea that this wasn't a hate crime.

Undercover Black Man said...

Sorry to start some shit then run away, but I'm on a quick rhino hunt...

I'll be back.

DeAngelo Starnes said...

dragonhorse, did you actually read the entire Moynihan Report? Cuz I did in my distant past. I revisited part of it via your link.

See, you and thordaddy tend to simplify, generalize, and encapsulize complex issues into a broad statement of fact. You guys don't deal in principles. You cherry-pick and then say "there it is" - "my proof of an overriding principle."

Dig this excerpt, and trust me I have a lot of problems with the Moynihan Report, which at the time was hailed as a ground-breaking study in race relations.

"In a word, most Negro youth are in danger of being caught up in the tangle of pathology that affects their world, and probably a majority are so entrapped. Many of those who escape do so for one generation only: as things now are, their children may have to run the gauntlet all over again. That is not the least vicious aspect of the world that white America has made for the Negro.

Obviously, not every instance of social pathology afflicting the Negro community can be traced to the weakness of family structure. If, for example, organized crime in the Negro community were not largely controlled by whites, there would be more capital accumulation among Negroes, and therefore probably more Negro business enterprises. If it were not for the hostility and fear many whites exhibit toward Negroes, they in turn would be less afflicted by hostility and fear and so on. There is no one Negro community. There is no one Negro problem. There is no one solution. Nonetheless, at the center of the tangle of pathology is the weakness of the family structure. Once or twice removed, it will be found to be the principal source of most of the aberrant, inadequate, or antisocial behavior that did not establish, but now serves to perpetuate the cycle of poverty and deprivation.

It was by destroying the Negro family under slavery that white America broke the will of the Negro people. Although that will has reasserted itself in our time, it is a resurgence doomed to frustration unless the viability of the Negro family is restored."

Your solution though? A so-called benign form of slavery, forced anti-pregnancy inoculations, glorified plantations with shoot-to-kill-and-on-the-spot penalties.

And this will restore America to its past glory? A return to the bad-old days.

Black-on-white crime is not an epidemic. Cuz if it was, we would have already seen martial law imposed.

Demonization, on the other hand, is a constant problem that bruhs have to deal with.

When a white cop shoots an innocent Black victim, there's no manhunt. There's not even prison time. Paid-time off is the norm.

But when some bruhs attack innocent white victims, there's a manhunt.

Where's the manhunt for whites attacking Blacks? Only when someone like Al Sharpton screams about it long and hard.

Likewise, where's the manhunt when Blacks attack Blacks? Your observation is the typical response.

Where's the outrage? Where're the 11 o'clock news reports? Where's the concern? Where're the task forces trying to come up with a resolution?

Instead, we get demonized as "thugs" and have ignorant rants about how scared they are when they see a group of Black or Latino men on the street at night.

Confession: I get just as scared when I'm around white dudes taking shot after shot of alcohol when I'm out on the town with my wife, who is very beautiful. Because I've had too many instances where I had to square up on a stupid-muthafucka who thought he was gonna disrespect our relationship.

And yes, she's a sista.

You, and thordaddy, wanna come correct with an argument? I'm here. And bring a lunch.

DeAngelo Starnes said...

render, what Jews got fucking lynched because of Al Sharpton?

Do you know what lynching is?

Have seen lynching?

If your statement was true, Al would be in jail as I type this post.

Undercover Black Man said...

Thordaddy wrote: "Even that silly black female mayor is trying to sell the idea that this wasn't a hate crime."

That's another thing... who gives a damn if it was a "hate crime" or not? "Hate" isn't the crisis... crime is the crisis!

But liberalism has clouded our minds so that nothing is considered worse than "hate."

odocoileus said...

thordaddy,

you're argument seems to be based on the vague impression of the black poor you get from the news media.

Since the black poor commit much more assault and murder against other blacks than they do against whites, the claim for targeting lacks evidence, at least on initial examination.

It's been demonstrated, in studies like The Determinants of Punishment, and numerous death penalty studies, that homicide against white victims is punished significantly more severely than homicide against black victims.

This leads me to believe that some black criminals actually avoid committing crimes against whites because they know it will draw greater heat. On the other hand, for robbery in particular, black criminals may believe that whites are more likely to have money and other valuables.

In the LA Weekly article on gangs in Watts and Nickerson Gardens, LA Police Chief Bratton made a telling observation:

The poor blacks in the projects seem to have little ethnic pride. People would routinely murder members of their own extended family because they fell on the wrong side of the gang line. They had no common black identity, and no real interest in the history and culture referenced by the various flavors of cultural nationalist, like Fisher and Starnes.

So, thordaddy, I think you have it exactly backwards. The cultural nationalism you find disturbing is an affectation of the black middle and stable working classes. As you move down the socio economic ladder, few black people know or care about black culture, black politics, black history.

The hood rats who targeted (middle classe black)Howard University students for rape and robbery are an excellent case in point.

I recall seeing a tape of an interview with a young woman from one of the DC projects during Jesse Jackson's 1984 presidential run. The young woman didn't know who Jackson was, and didn't care. These people generally don't vote, and in spite of the rhetoric about caring for the poor, most black politicians ignore them.

The (black upper middle class)P.G. County Executive before the current one was forthright about his desire to only allow higher income housing developments in the future. He specifically wanted to keep out black folks like the ones involved in the Baltimore bus attack.

Michael Fisher said...

Dragon Horse...

"My solution is simple.

Population control.

Less bastards born and allowed to be raised by barbaric low brow parents the less crime there will be in the black community"


Given your murderous, Nazi/fascist statement, DH, the best thing you could do for humanity is to shoot yourself in the head.

Michael Fisher said...

God Of All White People...

"Yet, you pretend as if this act of violence is just some random event that can tell us nothing more than this being a mere act of violence among many other acts of violence."

I don't think you really answered my question, but anyhow, where did I say that this is a random event?

Actually, I think the event was inevitable.

So do white folks. Otherwise they wouldn't have "Nigger Catchers".

Render said...

Michael - They would know my religion by the Mezuzah I wear around my neck. To replace the one that was stolen at gunpoint in West Baltimore. Would you have me wear a yellow star on my shirt to help with identification?

When is there ever a justification for attacking people based on their skin color or religion?

What happened to individual responsibility?

Why are we returning to group punishment?

But before you answer those questions...

Answer my first question to you.

Do you have a problem with my religion? I'd like to know if I'm dealing with yet another openly bigoted person.

===

DeAngelo -

http://www.google.com/search?q=al+sharpton+crown+heights&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Sharpton should be in jail for inciting the Crown Heights riot and he should be discredited for the Brawley case.

=

Yes - I know. It happens to "my people" as well. Have you forgotten that part? No - I'm fortunate enough to have never seen a lynching firsthand. Is that some sort of requirement?

What is the difference between David Duke and Louis Farrakhan, besides skin color?

===

I see at least one Auster-bot and at least one Odinist in this thread. Makes the place smell bad...

ENGAGE,
R

Undercover Black Man said...

Rhino down. Now I'm playing catch-up on this here thread...

Dragon Horse wrote: "1)We should encourage abortion for low class people (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever)."

Actually, the black abortion rate is already three times higher than the white. For every two black babies born in America, one is aborted.

A whole separate topic unto itself...

DeAngelo Starnes said...

render, there wasn't a goddamn person lynched - jewish or otherwise - during Crown Heights.

And I refuse the Jewish as victim so I can be drawn into an anti-semite debate.

And you wanna draw comparisons between Farrakhan and David Duke? How about we pull the ADL and David Horowitz into this then?

I personally give less than a fuck about what religion someone practices unless they try to impose that practice on me.

So let's not stray from the topic. We can debate your sensitivities somewhere else. I'll be happy to provide you my email address.

Michael Fisher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael Fisher said...

render...

"Michael - They would know my religion by the Mezuzah I wear around my neck. To replace the one that was stolen at gunpoint in West Baltimore. Would you have me wear a yellow star on my shirt to help with identification?"

If an Ethiopian Jew (Beta Israel) were to walk around West Batimore with a Mezuzah around his neck, do you think that it would have been stolen at gun point?

"Do you have a problem with my religion? I'd like to know if I'm dealing with yet another openly bigoted person."

With a name like Michael Fisher, what makes you think that I am not a Jew?

Render said...

DeAngelo - Google is your friend. His name was Yankel Rosenbaum. There was no good reason for him to die.

===

Michael - No doubt in my mind that person that robbed me would have robbed whatever type of pizza driver had showed up that night in West Bmore. The odds are pretty good that it could have been a Pakistani Muslim, rather than me. I'm quite convinced that my religion had nothing to do with it.

Names get changed to protect the innocent.

Hamas and HizbAllah give no quarter to and will not accept the surrender of Black members of the IDF.

===

But I didn't come here to debate...

Tell ya what, I'll go back to lurking, reading, and learning. You two clearly know a lot more about the subjects you're discussing than I ever will, and I learned a long time ago that I learn more by just listening.

PARDON
MY
INTRUSION,
R

DeAngelo Starnes said...

render, don't bail so soon. your perspective is appreciated even if some aspects are disagreed with.

keep it flowing.

Michael Fisher said...

render...

"Michael - No doubt in my mind that person that robbed me would have robbed whatever type of pizza driver had showed up that night in West Bmore. The odds are pretty good that it could have been a Pakistani Muslim, rather than me. I'm quite convinced that my religion had nothing to do with it."

Well, if that is o, why did you then begin as thus:

"This skinny little Jew can walk through Bacontown/East Laurel or the trailer parks of Maryland City/Howard County at 3am with nary an issue.

Anacostia/SE DC or West Bmore after dark are pretty much out of the question though. I might as well be wearing a bullseye t-shirt and carrying a sign that says "free money - rob me."

That's not a "feeling," it's based on personal experiences growing up Jewish here in PG County, Maryland."



render...

"Hamas and HizbAllah give no quarter to and will not accept the surrender of Black members of the IDF.

While I don't qute understand what Hamas and Hizbollah have to do with West Baltimore, I am quite aware what a racist outfit Hizbollah is. After all it's agents did much to stir up the blood diamond war in Liberia and Sierra Leone in order to get their hands on diamonds so they could finance their wars.

I am not particularly fond of people whose colloquial word for black people is Abd - slave.

So what's your point?

But getting back to my question. What makes you think that I am not Jewish? Nu Bubele?

Thordaddy said...

Mr. Mills,

"Hate" crimes are all the rage especially here in SoCal. The attempt to have this legal philosophy implemented in order to benefit a certain minority race of people is doomed to fail. Why...? Because the black female mayor of a major US city has to tell a lie that no one believes.

Read Fisher and Starnes and one reads two individuals who treat these punks like soldiers in a war. They strip them of intent and claim that it was "incorrect" and "stupid" to beat those white people senseless. Meaning, their actions didn't serve well for the bigger war.

And neither of them have given sufficient answer as to why these thugs, so distant from palpable white supremacy, learned to pray on helpless white people?

Or, will they put a new theory forward that claims white supremacy to be its most potent in the inner-cities?

My theory is that they are both just refined hustlers. One can't help but be more aware of the growing number of racial hustlers out there.

odocoileus said...

thordaddy,

here in So Cal, the hate crime that's all the rage is Mexican gang bangers killing blacks at random. They do this under official order from the Mexican Mafia.

It's blowback from the fact that Latinos make up the majority of inmates in the county jails and the state prison system. They are wresting control of drug trade and control of the jails from blacks.

This in turn is blowback from the unlimited illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America. Immigration aided and abetted by both Democrats and Republicans. Democrats because they want more voters, and more recipients for social services. Republicans because they want more cheap labor and more population pressure to drive up real estate prices.

Black politicians have taken no action on illegal immigration, even though it's one issue which affects their communities more detrimentally than any other.

They don't want to antagonize Latino Democrats, so they keep their mouths shut. They'll march for a noose, rally if some white cops are a little overzealous when beating down a lowlife thug. What they won't do is make any noise at all when local vatos shoot down yet another black kid on his way home from football practice.

I'm not sure if you're one of those white nationalists who applauds the Mexican gang members for having the nerve to do what you'd like to, or one of those who sees the vatos as just another part of the rising tide of mud.

Either way, it's pretty hard to spin white folks as victims of this. There aren't many white folks left in So Cal. With the exception of the Ashkenazi Jews, most of them done run off.

Michael Fisher said...

God Of All White People...

"distant from palpable white supremacy, learned to pray on helpless white people?"

Aside from the fact, that white Supremacy is well entrenched everywhere in the US, apparently you have never been to Baltimore.

Undercover Black Man said...

Render: I second DeAngelo. Nobody wants you to shut up.

Hell, we don't even want Thordaddy to shut up... and he's a bona fide white supremacist!

Here in the House of Love, I want everybody to say what's on their mind. Bring it as hard as you wanna bring it. Or not. I just think this kind of wrestling makes all of us stronger.

And don't take none of it personal. Remember, it's only the Internet... it ain't real life.

Thordaddy said...

The point is that these two separate groups of black teens set upon and viciously attacked "whites" based almost certainly on what they have learnt from their environment. And then the mayor is left to tell a lie that no one believes, namely, that the acts of violence had no racial motivation.

I don't see a better theory.

Rather, we see excuses meant to mitigate the racially motivated act of violence. The real supremacists are exposed along with the modern day hustle.

Thordaddy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
odocoileus said...

No, thordaddy.

In order to prove your claim, you have to show that black thugs don't routinely beat down other blacks.

Anyone familiar with B'more and other black urban areas know that this isn't true. Young thugs like this beat down black people all the time. They also burn respectable black folks out their houses, and genrally make inner city black folks more likely to be robbed, raped, or murdered than any other group of Americans.

A couple of years ago, a nice liberal white lady wrote a first person account, in the Post, of something she witnessed outside a Target in PG County. Some young black thugs had beat down and old black man b/c he didn't get out of their way fast enough.

One of the favorite targets for ghetto beatdowns is the black immigrant, from either Africa or the West Indies. They embarrass the hood rats by example, and if they don't learn how to act ghetto pretty quickly, they get their asses beat and chased home from school everyday.

Your claim of racial targeting just doesn't hold up. Whites are probably less likely to be victims of this type of assault, precisely because the less ignorant of the thugs know that fucking with white people brings down a lot more heat than fucking with black people.

I dig that you being a skintellectual, you care way more about crimes committed against white folks than the same crimes committed against blacks. But this ain't stormfront. You want to claim targeting, you've got to show a differential rate.

Render said...

I wasn't kidding when I said some of you know way more about some of these subjects then I do.

Be that as it may...

As some of you are already aware, I'm a long time commenter on LittleGreenFootballs.

Since the middle of last october we've, (LGF), been fighting in a multi-front blog war to prevent White Nationalists and neo-nazi's from infiltrating our turf. I'm deeply involved in that battle and it is one that I cannot morally disengage or be distracted from at this point. It is that very blog war that drew me in here in the first place. Looking for additional ammo to fire at Auster and his sock puppets.

Too many irons in the fire currently.

I'm not going away, just disengaging.

(DeAngelo - The Speed Chess "Ding!" sign-offs are killer.)

HASHOMER,
R

Thordaddy said...

o,

It doesn't necessarily follow that because blacks are very violent towards other blacks that this means that when blacks attack whites that they commit such acts without racial motivation.

You're trying to sell the notion that blacks don't commit "hate" crimes against whites on a regular occurrence even though you very much sell the ideas that would lead the average person to conclude that blacks are very justified in their individual and collective hate for whites.

This is why Fisher can say the the violent actions were "incorrect" and "stupid" and not necessarily immoral. His stance is a racially motivated one masked by a weak notion of objectivity as he takes no moral stance.

His belief system, as yours, doesn't allow you to conceptualize black on white "hate" crimes. Even when it is right before you, you're still in denial.

Again, I ask who the true supremacists are?

odocoileus said...

It's tough to prove a negative. You're saying, "Prove that those thugs don't hate white people." Well, in the case of the Wichita murders, at least one of the thugs was involved in a long term relationship with a white woman. White hater? No. Subhuman scum? Yes.

You're going to have show me some proof for your claim that I think attacks against whites are justified.

Again, black folks who know their history and culture are less likely rather than more, to be a danger to you.

You're confusing two different things. One, people who have no self respect, and behave accordingly. Two, people who have a great deal of self respect, but don't believe what you believe, and are consequently seen as a threat.


dragonhorse,

you sort of got lost in the shuffle. You seem to be channeling
Lee Kuan Yew there. I like your ideas. Not politically feasible in the current climate, but most assuredly a potential path for substantial improvement.

I'd go you one better.


Overseas exile prisons.

Anyone who commits a serious felony with a deadly weapon, and anyone who commits a serious felony as part of a group assault, gets life without parole in an overseas exile prison.

They can never come back to the States. Ever.

Get them out of the country, and out of the gene pool. Setup big prison farms in the backwoods of Guyana, or the hills of Haiti, or Guatemala. Someplace where the land and labor are cheap, and the economy is poor enough to welcome the jobs the prisons would bring.

Make everyone understand that if they do certain things, they will disappear and never come back.

odocoileus said...

It's tough to prove a negative. You're saying, "Prove that those thugs don't hate white people." Well, in the case of the Wichita murders, at least one of the thugs was involved in a long term relationship with a white woman. White hater? No. Subhuman scum? Yes.

You're going to have show me some proof for your claim that I think attacks against whites are justified.

Again, black folks who know their history and culture are less likely rather than more, to be a danger to you.

You're confusing two different things. One, people who have no self respect, and behave accordingly. Two, people who have a great deal of self respect, but don't believe what you believe, and are consequently seen as a threat.


dragonhorse,

you sort of got lost in the shuffle. You seem to be channeling
Lee Kuan Yew there. I like your ideas. Not politically feasible in the current climate, but most assuredly a potential path for substantial improvement.

I'd go you one better.


Overseas exile prisons.

Anyone who commits a serious felony with a deadly weapon, and anyone who commits a serious felony as part of a group assault, gets life without parole in an overseas exile prison.

They can never come back to the States. Ever.

Get them out of the country, and out of the gene pool. Setup big prison farms in the backwoods of Guyana, or the hills of Haiti, or Guatemala. Someplace where the land and labor are cheap, and the economy is poor enough to welcome the jobs the prisons would bring.

Make everyone understand that if they do certain things, they will disappear and never come back.

Michael Fisher said...

"Setup big prison farms in the backwoods of Guyana, or the hills of Haiti, or Guatemala."

Interesting choice of locale.

odocoileus, are you a white person?

easter said...

Does anyone not have a sense of history here? Not that any of these actions are correct, but I grewup in Baltimore and went to high school in the neighborhood that indie film people now glorify as John Waters' stomping grounds, but was until a few years ago, Hampton, one of the most aggressively racist sections of Baltimore. I can remember the bus driver after school screaming at us to close our windows (in 90 degree heat) before we went down Falls Road because white people - and not just white people, I'm talking about mothers carrying babies, would spit in the windows and throw whatever they had in their hands (groceries, sodas, pizza, cigarettes) into the windows at the black people on the bus. And no, there was no busing issue - this was in teh course of a normal day.

This was 1979, not 1964.

Not that white folks deserve to get fucked with. but in Baltimore the bullshit comes and goes both ways and has continued to well after the rest of the country left it behind. There are still places - Dundalk for example - in Baltimore that black kids dare not go for fear of getting the very same treatment. So how about Dave? Where's the news on that shit?

Undercover Black Man said...

Easter wrote: "So how about Dave? Where's the news on that shit?"

Mr. Easter, let's be absolutely real... If two separate groups of white teenagers had beat down random black folks on public transportation -- in Baltimore or any other American city -- it would be national news. And you know that. And opinion writers would be writing about what the hell was wrong with America.

I say again, a few fucking noose hangings -- removed by many decades from the reality of American lynching -- were a national news story for weeks. And not one black person injured.

The prevalence of black crime is under-reported in the American media. And yet that reality -- likely more than any other -- has re-shaped the demographics of U.S. urban areas for the past, what, 50 years?

Used to be called "white flight," but in recent decades it has been middle-class blacks fleeing poorer black folk and the culture of violence, thievery and predation that thrives among 'em... and which should be Issue #1 for any black-uplift movement.

Undercover Black Man said...

Render: Handle your business (at LGF). Drop in here any time.

Thordaddy said...

o,

If I said the James Byrd murder was "stupid" and "incorrect" and you passively agreed to that, meaning, you said nothing in regards to its ultimate immorality, what is that evidence of?

The proof of the "hate" crime is implicit in those with equivalent ideological aims who deny it so vociferously.

Undercover Black Man said...

^ If I said the James Byrd murder was "stupid" and "incorrect" and you passively agreed to that...

This reminds me of a comment I read on a news site after the first Baltimore bus beating. Somebody said the young lads had excerised "poor judgment."

And I'm thinking: Uhh... that's what you call a mob assault? Poor judgment?

odocoileus said...

michael fisher,

Am I a white person?

That has to be rhetorical question.

I chose those locales because they're poor enough to not automatically refuse US prisoners. They need the money badly enough to overcome their natural distaste.

I'm not proposing differential sentencing by race. White armed robbers would get the same treatment. Can you imagine the typical white nationalist armed robber/meth junkie in a prison staffed by Haitian guards? A circle of Hell even Dante couldn't imagine.

thordaddy,

I didn't agree, passively or otherwise, with Fisher's claim.
I stated my position, which is that these kids are scum. I went further and stated that people who committed group assaults should receive life without parole in exile prisons.

Now the victim in the Baltimore case wasn't murdered the way Byrd was, and wasn't horrifically tortured the way Byrd was - dragged by a car along the road. So the cases aren't exactly comparable.

Since the perps in the Byrd case had become white nationalists in prison, and had a stated hatred of blacks, their crime fit the definition of a hate crime neatly.

You appear to lack any evidence to prove that whites are being targeted. I can only conclude that you aren't susceptible to reason.

You and Fisher need each other, though, the way extremists on opposing sides always need each other.

Michael Fisher said...

"You and Fisher need each other, though, the way extremists on opposing sides always need each other."

Extreme what on my end, o?

DeAngelo Starnes said...

Just checked back in and saw this topic still has juice.

Excuse: Kind of hard for me to throw down during the football playoff race on football sundays.

thordaddy, re: who are the true white supremacists? Oh god. Name names. I guess that's where I'll be if we see a couple more white people getting beat down by some bruhs. Being subjected to demands to name names before Congress. Or worse, yet. Guantanamo. We're talking more about a system when we make that reference. The white supremacists are the folks who set this shit up and think, speak, and act in a way to keep it going.

I don't think that all white people are white supremacists, if that helps you.

Then you made a point that I implied the cats who beat down the white people are soldiers in some kind of race war. Where is that at in any of my posts?

I haven't glorified the subject of whites being beat down by bruhs in this post.

In fact, from my first post, I said wrong is wrong.

But you've been doing a lot of finger-pointing. It seems to be an effort to cause an agreement that the bruhs who committed this act are black thugs.

Your speech has been typical of white racialists who espouse inflammatory rhetoric by shouting "See! This is the Black man exhibiting hate against good, Christian white Americans! There's a race war going on, people. And it starts with hate crimes committed by Black thugs!"

As I said, it's that kind of demonization that's led to innocent Blacks getting lynched. It's that type of mentality that leads to cops shooting Blacks on the presumption that (s)he's a dangerous Black "thug" whose out to destroy America.

So, thordaddy, let me throw a brick at you. Where do you stand on whites who commit acts of violence against Blacks? Is that a "hate" crime? Is it "stupid"? Would it be an "incorrect" behavior? If so, why? If not, why not? And would you characterize them as "white thugs"?

o, I tried to respect where you were coming from. I had to depart ways with you when you chimed in with that Jonestown analogy and cheerled a glorified version of a concentration camp. And the "overzealous" cop example.

Last point before I read responses, I still haven't received a response to my point, which was where is the evidence that the cats pictured in this post are the perpetrators

For instance, Dave, one of your greatest hits is Misidentified Black Person. Now, what if our, my and your, pictures appeared on the 11 o'clock news because we happened to have boarded the same bus?

Ding!

Undercover Black Man said...

... where is the evidence that the cats pictured in this post are the perpetrators

I have to assume the transit cops, DeAngelo, know who they're looking for. After all, it's hard to beat somebody's ass on a city bus and not be seen by anybody... like by the driver.

ItAintEazy said...

Right now, I don't really know what went on on that bus because I don't really know who to believe. The kids and witnesses claimed the white woman said a racial slur at the kids, and the woman currently has a drug charge pending in court.

If it's true what the witnesses says, does it still excuse what they did? Something like that happened to me and a group of black kids on a bus I was riding last summer, not only did this 60-year-old grandmother used slurs, she commented on the general stupidity of black kids, the black kids on the bus just called her a Klan lady and left it at that.

Thordaddy said...

Mr. Mills,

Perhaps you admit to missing Fisher's statement concerning the "stupid" and "incorrect" actions of these black thugs. You should reread it and tell me if it's not the writing of a supremacist.

My reference to James Byrd was to point out the immorality of defining acts of predatory violence as "stupid" and "incorrect." Yet, no one other than me has pointed out Fisher's immorality and Starnes' understanding.

odocoileus said...

*o, I tried to respect where you were coming from. I had to depart ways with you when you chimed in with that Jonestown analogy and cheerled a glorified version of a concentration camp. And the "overzealous" cop example.*

Not a Jonestown analogy at all. Jonestown was a socialist, Christian cult which had the support of Democrats including some black leaders.

This is a prison for people who've committed violent crimes. If you can't see the distinction, well...

Still, the bodies of young black men continue to stack up like cordwood all over the US. If you're cool with ignoring it and looking the other way, or just blaming it all on white folks and continuing with the status quo, well...

As for the overzealous cop issue, in case you missed it, I'll hang a lantern on it. It's the idea that only bad things that white people do to black people are significant. When Latinos or Black people do bad things to black people, this rarely launches marches or protests.

The streets of Baltimore and DC are littered with the bodies of black folks, and as long as there's no way to pin it on some white guy, it's ignored.

This because a lot of black leaders, and their supporters in the community, are closet white supremacists. They believe that what white people do is important, and what black people do isn't.

Dragon Horse said...

Deangelo:

I would not define "low class"

If you can not afford to take care of yourself, let alone another person and are dependent on the government, then we should encourage you not to procreate. It is cheaper for the government to pay for it then deal with the potential aftermath. $400 or whatever compared to thousands over a potential life time. I would say abortion is a good deal.

As I said..."women who have been married" can get support if something happens to their husband or ex-husband. That is far different then being the mother of a bastard.

As I said, birth control shots are cheap to the aftermath, in the end the government would save money.

You are right about child support, this is just an outline, you can give someone a 6 months window due to unemployment, etc. The point of this program is not save money as much as punish people and teach responsibility. It is a deterrent. It is not all about "saving money' although I would like to do it when I can.

As i said, about Martial Law, school...it is cheaper than then what happens afterward. You seem to be concerned with the immediate cost savings. I am not. I'm looking at it long term, not just based on monetary gain but also the gain to the society when less of these savages victimizes some innocent hard working person (usually black in black neighborhoods, usually Hispanic in Hispanic neighborhoods, etc).

As far as the "last solution"...simple. Anyone caught breaking a law in the Martial Law zone who has not committed a capital crime can choose. Prison (hard labor) or exile.

As far as the Moynihan Report, I did read it, and I do not agree with everything, but he got the gist of it pretty dead on. At the time, from what I remember, he was called a racist and a sexist.

I also never said all pathologies can be traced to family structure. The point is many can and a strong family unit is obviously a barrier against many types of pathologies (in any community). So what is better...say "oh this only helps 80% so screw it" or maximize what you can change right now?

You seem to think that because some poor blacks live bad lives that it is a "black problem". Reality it is a black lower class problem. Most blacks do just fine in this country. I'm specifically talking about the lower class, not all black people.

Black on white crime is not epidemic? According to what standard? Have you seen the rate difference between black on white as opposed to white on black.

In reality I'm worried about the largest which is black on black. This is high by developed nation standards and looks more like a third world country. Would you like a link to Interpol data, I have it, you can compare country crime rates, especially murder.

Any type of "manhunt" for any type of race crime is your attempt at emotional appeal, both cases are rare and I never said their is not racism and favoritism. I contend that it is not bad enough for people to live like animals in 2007. I'm not going to address your select issues that attempt to draw away from the topic.

I don't care what white people "demonize" or put on TV. I care about black people. I care about innocent black people being terrorized by black thugs. You are worried about what the white man cares about in regard to "whose life is more praised by them". Why don't you see more worth in the life of a black person than to live like an animal and be victimized by black savages in their own community?

Your fear of white people is not my issue. I don't have such fears and I live in a mostly white area and pretty much hangout at majority white places with an Asian wife. Those are your personal issues, not universal black issues.


LOL

Odocoileus:

Channeling Senior Minister Mentor Lee...lol

Whatever works. Lee had results, no one can argue with. Is he a obstinate bastard? Yep. Is he a genius and did he improve the lives of 6 million people from a ghetto country backward colony (at the time poorer than Ghana and Kenya) to a full developed nation in 40 years? Yep. That is all I need to know. I could get with the overseas exile prisons. I'm sure some ghetto countries would gladly accept payments by the U.S. in turn for prison facilities in their country.

Damn...you gave me a good idea.

Michael fisher:
l...you think I'm evil don't you...you think I'm some type of eugenics freak right?

Well I got my initial idea from the original black red doper diaper baby...W.E.B. Dubois. I found it on your site actually, a few months ago, some anon posted it. I can also prove that Booker T. Washington also supported controlled “birthing” of the lower class. These two men, more often than not opposed, agreed on this issue.

I will post it next post.

in reality I'm saying this, partially, in jest, because I know it is not politically feasable, but if this nonsense keeps up, I bet it won't be 15-20 years from now. I also am not sure how to impliment it, but I am being serious...myself and a lot of black people that I know are tired of seeing blacks victimized by savage animals who claim to be humans beings, and actually the same "people" at them. I get sick of them reflecting on me, defaming my people (the majority of blacks who are upstanding citizens who work hard). We are tired. If I could deport every single one of them, the remaining black community would likely be so productive it would make Chinese people look lazy and ignorant.

Dragon Horse said...

"... the low incomes which Negroes receive make bachelorhood and spinsterhood widespread, with the naturally resultant lowering, in some cases, of sex standards. On the other hand, the mass of ignorant Negroes still breed carelessly and disastrously, so that the increase among Negroes, even more than the increase among whites, is from that part of the population least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear their children properly.

"There comes, therefore, the difficult and insistent problem of spreading among Negroes an intelligent and clearly recognized concept of proper birth control, so that the young people can marry, have companionship and natural health, and yet not have children until they are able to take care of them. This, of course, calls for a more liberal attitude among Negro churches. The churches are open for the most part to intelligent propaganda of any sort, and the American Birth Control League and other agencies ought to get their speakers before church congregations and their arguments in the Negro newspapers. As it is, the mass of Negroes know almost nothing about the birth control movement, and even intelligent colored people have a good many misapprehensions and a good deal of fear at openly learning about it. Like most people with middle-class standards of morality, they think that birth control is inherently immoral.

"Moreover, they ["Negroes"] are quite led away by the fallacy of numbers. They want the black race to survive. They are cheered by a census return of increasing numbers and a high rate of increase. They must learn that among human races and groups, as among vegetables, quality and not mere quantity really counts."
—W.E.B. DuBois, Professor of Sociology, Atlanta University. "Black Folk and Birth Control." Birth Control Review, Volume XXII, Number 8 (New Series, May 1938, the "Negro Number"), page 90.
Yes, it's that W.E.B. DuBois—the founder of the NAACP.

Dragon Horse said...

O:

You are definatley right. Right now as we speak in Cali it is likely some Hispanic gang is ethnically cleansing a traditional black community as they have been doing for almost a decade, but the L.A. Times just started reporting on it a couple of years ago.

Where is Jesse Jackson or any black leader for that matter?

Nowhere.

A black person's life is only valuable to them if a white man takes it.

Hispanics don't have squat they can shake down so they are not interested.

If these people are really "pro-black" the first people they should seak to destroy are sellouts.

The first line of sellouts in the black community are not black Republicans. They are gangbangers, drug dealers, baby's daddy with their dick in their hand and no child support, women who can't manage their reproduction and other people who retard and destroy black progress with their behavior.

These people are a weight on black progress and need to be rehabilitated, removed from society, prevented from being born, or shot.

Black people deserve better. We didn't go through everything we went through to go from Klan to Cript.

DeAngelo Starnes said...

dragonhorse, now we're getting somewhere as opposed to that concentration camp bullshit you posted earlier.

Let's get something straight though. My focus ain't necessarily on the so-called white man.

But the topic was the "proper black partisan response" to black-on-white crime.

And point has been it's not an epidemic.

I said "on-Black" violence was.

You haven't set forth a serious constructive solution that attacks the cause of the problem.

You want to penalize the aftermath.

And brotha, I stayed on topic. It seems like your knees got a little weak cuz you couldn't handle the head-on assault.

But let's not devolve to personal insults. This isn't MTV's Yo Mama.

That's all I'm gonna type for now because I gotta crescendo point for the Stakes Be High Throwdown I don't want to foreshadow.

BTW, I love WEB, but he had some elitist to him. So your quote, which I hadn't read previously, doesn't surprise me.

o, Blacks as closet white supremacists? No such thing. You might have Black house jerks who believe as much in the system of white supremacy as any white supremacist, but there are not Black white supremacists - unless you count the Dave Chappelle skit.

And so maybe o, dragonhorse, and myself can hold hands and sing "We Shall Overcome." Let's launch a million man march against nonwhite against nonwhite crime. Maybe that'll make some folks feel better.

But will it solve the problem?

Ding!

DeAngelo Starnes said...

Actually, fuck Ding! We're gonna have to agree to disagree. The nitpicking has kicked the dead horse's ass.

Dave, let's move on, bruh!

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Yep.

Michael Fisher said...

deangelo,

DuBois was a sell-out who said not only that eugenic bullshyt,but praised the slavemaster's sons as the true liberators of black folk.

"DuBois actually claimed that the slave owners of yore and their progeny were the one class of whites in the South that was benevolent towards black folk:

'Today even the attitude of the Southern whites toward the blacks is not, as so many assume, in all cases the same; the ignorant Southerner hates the Negro, the workingmen fear his competition, the money-makers wish to use him as a laborer, some of the educated see a menace in his upward development, while others--usually the sons of the masters--wish to help him to rise. National opinion has enabled this last class to maintain the Negro common schools, and to protect the Negro partially in property, life, and limb.' W.E.B. DuBois, The Souls Of Black Folk.
"

link

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No wonder DH quotes him, and does quote him correctly.This is what the Hon. Marcus Garvey had to say about that guy:

"W. E. B. Du Bois is the most brazen fellow that one knows in Negro leadership. Because of the unfortunate mental condition of the masses of Negroes, this man, who secured many free scholarships to obtain his education, has consistently used his "white" education to mislead and humbug, the millions of his race in the United States.

The Negroes in America, since Emancipation, have ever been looking for honest and upright leaders to point them to the way of political, economic, social and general development. Du Bois offered himself immediately after he left Harvard and the people were glad to receive him, but jealous as he was of every other Negro leader, his first effort was to attack the honest, upright and useful leader -- Booker T. Washington.

By so doing he divided American Negro opinion and the confusion springing there from has continued up to the present, but Du Bois took pride and pleasure not only in attacking Booker Washington but he has attacked and tried to discredit every one other Negro leader of importance who sprung up in America.

The history of the struggle of the American Negro upward will record that Du Bois was one of the greatest enemies of the greatest industrial, political, commercial and nationalistic movements that was ever founded in the United States. He never rested openly and by intrigue to discredit and destroy this movement until he had along with others succeeded in having its leader "framed up" and imprisoned and then deported from the United States. After he succeeded in killing that movement in the United States and having the field almost entirely to himself, as no doubt he intended, he kept the race without a programme and up to recently he and Kelly Miller have been debating as to what kind of a programme would be best suited to the American Negro at this late hour of his national distress.

The very fact that the man up to now has no programme shows that he never intended any and his profession of being a leader from the time he left Harvard, was only to deceive the American Negro and at the same time satisfy his white patrons who had the scheme to suppress any independent development of his race."


source link

Thordaddy said...

Anyone who claims that the acts of predatory violence are "stupid" and "incorrect" is a supremacist of the humanist sort.

Fisher, your system of white supremacy theory lacks credibility because you lack credibility. You in fact, give tacit justification for such a system's revival, renewal or just plain emergence with your immoral rhetoric concerning black on white mob violence.

One could argue that you are, as Du Bois was claimed to be, equally in the service of such a white supremacist system?

Michael Fisher said...

God Of All White people...

"You in fact, give tacit justification for such a system's revival, renewal or just plain emergence with your immoral rhetoric concerning black on white mob violence."

Interesting thought.

How?

And who will actually "rebuilt" the System of White Supremacy?