tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post5598144256530842749..comments2024-03-24T23:57:28.687-07:00Comments on Undercover Black Man: Thoughts on themeUndercover Black Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-28097574833823181952009-04-10T18:15:00.000-07:002009-04-10T18:15:00.000-07:00...And Baltimore, true, too. Perhaps a theme can a......And Baltimore, true, too. Perhaps a theme can act as the moral, or larger lesson, so that the series has a momentum, detected or not. <BR/><BR/>On a side note, I hope you won't be scared with the feedback of those in Treme. Just like Baltimore, we take exception with the bullshitters who like to stereotype (not that this has happened before...)Obie Joe Mediahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06469154878781869047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-83741672269501289612009-04-09T18:52:00.000-07:002009-04-09T18:52:00.000-07:00And that New Orleans is one of the few (if the onl...And that New Orleans is one of the few (if the only) U.S. city where this ingrained into the culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-36820329789145098652009-04-09T09:08:00.000-07:002009-04-09T09:08:00.000-07:00I'm glad you feel its not about the so-called "tri...I'm glad you feel its not about the so-called "triumph of the human spirit blah-blah-blah". Because it is about getting up despite the situation. I live in Los ANgeles, but my folks stayed with me initially after Katrina. And setback after setback would come at them. They would get upset and I'd tell them it's not abot getting upset it's about getting the best solution possible within a fucked up situation (though I didn't use those words with them). Man, you are so correct that is what it's about.Rod Emellenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-64037021486488494772009-04-09T06:00:00.000-07:002009-04-09T06:00:00.000-07:00^ The way "The Wire" is selling on DVD (internatio...^ The way "The Wire" is selling on DVD (internationally, at that), I hope HBO knows it ain't all about ratings.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-64844833952511120742009-04-08T22:24:00.000-07:002009-04-08T22:24:00.000-07:00Good post. Was pleasantly surprised to see them me...Good post. Was pleasantly surprised to see them mention you when I read that piece a day or two back.<BR/><BR/>Do you think HBO will be ok with Treme getting The Wire-like ratings? Because I can't see it getting higher ratings.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01245472084190224186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-81467590089908856322009-04-08T16:36:00.000-07:002009-04-08T16:36:00.000-07:00^ In other words, it's as much about us as it is a...^ In other words, it's as much about <EM>us</EM> as it is about cops.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-15508846420123944972009-04-08T16:32:00.000-07:002009-04-08T16:32:00.000-07:00^ The theme of "NYPD Blue" is specific to policing...^ The theme of "NYPD Blue" is specific to policing, but in a way that's broader than the mechanics or the process of the job. It's about society's unspoken demand upon cops... so in that way the theme speaks about the larger culture.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-75029545947058782652009-04-08T16:21:00.000-07:002009-04-08T16:21:00.000-07:00The theme is what's left after you strip everythin...<I>The theme is what's left after you strip everything else away.</I><BR/><BR/>Buy isn't your stated theme for NYPD Blue something that can only apply to cops and not anything broader?Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-24068643823298974852009-04-08T14:59:00.000-07:002009-04-08T14:59:00.000-07:00^ Thanks for commenting, Anna. But that's not what...^ Thanks for commenting, Anna. But that's not what I mean by theme.<BR/><BR/>A theme says something larger about society or about human nature.<BR/><BR/>Another way to think of it is: <EM>If "Homicide" weren't about homicide detectives, what would it be about?</EM><BR/><BR/>If "Deadwood" weren't about the West, it would still be about the evolution of law.<BR/><BR/>If "The Wire" weren't about Baltimore, it would still be about the individual vs. institutions.<BR/><BR/>If "The Sopranos" weren't about mobsters, it would still be about the emptiness of power. ("Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.")<BR/><BR/>And if "Treme" weren't about New Orleans, it would still be about the human impulse to rise after being knocked down.<BR/><BR/>The theme is what's left after you strip everything else away.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-40597249835554717192009-04-08T13:50:00.000-07:002009-04-08T13:50:00.000-07:00Homicide originally had a theme. "Being murder pol...Homicide originally had a theme. "Being murder police is about using your head, not a gun and a car chase." <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, to appease the NBC bosses, this theme was abandoned..Annanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-13781472054469032822009-04-08T11:25:00.000-07:002009-04-08T11:25:00.000-07:00^ Aw hell... Not only did I never see that show, M...^ Aw hell... Not only did I never see that show, Michael, I didn't even get your reference. I thought you were talking about real-life love!Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-61528406012184134762009-04-08T11:17:00.000-07:002009-04-08T11:17:00.000-07:00"Sopranos"-type F******, Michael. This is HBO! I g...<B>"Sopranos"-type F******, Michael. This is HBO! </B><BR/><BR/>I guess you didn't watch "Tell Me You Love Me" which was a show on HBO that had the most graphic sex scenes (short of something with Lexington Steele)<BR/><BR/>http://www.hbo.com/tellme/Michael Murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09828538216745981099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-9247904358907021102009-04-08T11:13:00.000-07:002009-04-08T11:13:00.000-07:00I agree with estiv, I think a show should have an ...<EM>I agree with estiv, I think a show should have an uber theme. Otherwise you get junk like "How I Met Your Mother" or "Brothers and Sisters."</EM><BR/><BR/>You remind me, Kellybelle, that the "theme" thing can also apply to sitcoms... though not as readily.<BR/><BR/>Two great sitcoms of the '70s -- "All in the Family" and "M*A*S*H" -- had very powerful themes.<BR/><BR/>"All in the Family" was about a man being left behind by changing times. Archie Bunker was a tragic character in that way. Tragic and comic at the same time.<BR/><BR/>"M*A*S*H," of course, wore its theme (the folly of war) on its sleeve.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-54665021552416495642009-04-08T11:07:00.000-07:002009-04-08T11:07:00.000-07:00I'd say Homicide's theme didn't really have anythi...<EM>I'd say Homicide's theme didn't really have anything specifically to do with cops. It was just good old-fashioned Catholic guilt.</EM><BR/><BR/>Ah. Well done... though I'd call that a <EM>motif</EM>, not a theme as such.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-62147632348272017502009-04-08T11:06:00.000-07:002009-04-08T11:06:00.000-07:00But is it tell me you love me type F******* or NYP...<EM>But is it tell me you love me type F******* or NYPD blue type F*******</EM><BR/><BR/>"Sopranos"-type F******, Michael. This is HBO!Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-17881100252877343212009-04-08T11:02:00.000-07:002009-04-08T11:02:00.000-07:00I would say "ER" had a theme, and one not too diss...<EM>I would say "ER" had a theme, and one not too dissimilar to "The Wire": about people trying to do their best to help people within the confines of a deeply broken institution.</EM><BR/><BR/>Thanks for commenting, Alan. You are, and shall ever be, my blogfather.<BR/><BR/>But I don't think "ER" was about a "deeply broken institution" at all. All we ever saw on that show was first-class medicine being practiced by heroic and compassionate doctors. It was an advertisement for the health-care system, not a critique of it.<BR/><BR/>To the degree that there was head-butting going on, I think that was only to serve the week-by-week demand for dramatic antagonism.<BR/><BR/>Like I said, that doesn't make "ER" any less good as a show. The medical action plus workplace melodrama -- both executed at the highest level -- were enough to keep storyteller and audience plenty busy.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-12962978623327693082009-04-08T10:44:00.000-07:002009-04-08T10:44:00.000-07:00There's nothing inherently wrong with the phrase "...<EM>There's nothing inherently wrong with the phrase "triumph of the human spirit."</EM><BR/><BR/>I dig what you're saying, Andrew. But if we're being totally real... the impulse to fight, kill and destroy is also part of the "human spirit." Wouldn't that make <EM>war</EM> a "triumph" of the human spirit?Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-4855009733354515692009-04-08T10:28:00.000-07:002009-04-08T10:28:00.000-07:00I'd say Homicide's theme didn't really have anythi...I'd say Homicide's theme didn't really have anything specifically to do with cops. It was just good old-fashioned Catholic guilt.<BR/><BR/>There's nothing inherently wrong with the phrase "triumph of the human spirit." The problem is that the phrase has been co-opted by a bunch of shitty Disney movies that think the emphasis should be on the "triumph" part of the phrase rather than the "human spirit" part.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-80195497578974582722009-04-08T09:30:00.000-07:002009-04-08T09:30:00.000-07:00“ER” didn’t have a theme. (Or, if it did, nobody t...<I>“ER” didn’t have a theme. (Or, if it did, nobody told me what it was.)</I><BR/><BR/>I would say "ER" had a theme, and one not too dissimilar to "The Wire": about people trying to do their best to help people within the confines of a deeply broken institution. Now, "The Wire" was vastly better in its execution of that theme, but there were so many instances of the "ER" doctors butting their heads against the limits of the system that I think you have to call that the series' theme.Alan Sepinwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-81141042807016207042009-04-08T09:20:00.000-07:002009-04-08T09:20:00.000-07:00Merci beaucoup, David. I dig this, man. I really d...Merci beaucoup, David. I dig this, man. I really do. <BR/><BR/>And I can't wait to see the finished product. I'm usually not much for scripted dramas but I get the feeling that you and Simon will do right by New Orleans.blackinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00537923754597016040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-68079801217494545012009-04-08T09:16:00.000-07:002009-04-08T09:16:00.000-07:00While they may converge, I wonder if two questions...While they may converge, I wonder if two questions are on the table? Does a writer need to have a theme on which to focus their efforts, and does an audience need a theme to, well, focus their efforts? So many series today are based more on extended narrative structures ... today's audiences are used to series that ask us to consider the long haul, not just the standalone episodes. Themes, in such occasions, are nice, because they ground us as we follow the complexities of the overall arc.<BR/><BR/>I'm guessing that you, as a writer, need a theme that works in a similar fashion, as a grounding device. Not thinking so much of Kingpin, where you were the showrunner, but things like The Wire, where you were brought on board because of your obvious talents, and, I imagine, given some freedom as long as you hit key plot points. It would seem that knowing the overall theme of The Wire would make your job as a writer easier, or at least, more clear.Mon-sewer Paul Regrethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04918972562626522624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-25850927134576443222009-04-08T08:28:00.000-07:002009-04-08T08:28:00.000-07:00Great insights. ThanksGreat insights. ThanksSamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00756643049753865150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-6082833001609855862009-04-08T08:19:00.000-07:002009-04-08T08:19:00.000-07:00But is it tell me you love me type F******* or NYP...But is it tell me you love me type F******* or NYPD blue type F*******Michael Murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09828538216745981099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-37319144762588815012009-04-08T07:35:00.000-07:002009-04-08T07:35:00.000-07:00@UBM this is such an honest post. I love it! It e...@UBM this is such an honest post. I love it! It even makes me think of what is the theme of life? After "we" meet our basic needs, I believe everything boils down to f*cking.lawegohardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-69974392826767594202009-04-08T07:30:00.000-07:002009-04-08T07:30:00.000-07:00I agree with estiv, I think a show should have an ...I agree with estiv, I think a show should have an uber theme. Otherwise you get junk like "How I Met Your Mother" or "Brothers and Sisters." A theme allows a show to go on for years and still have the same kind of impact as a mini-series like "Roots" or "Thornbirds." Ugh--does that make sense? <BR/><BR/>Break a leg with your show. I'll subscribe to HBO if it's picked up, because my car will be paid for by the time it airs and I can splurge on premium channels ;-).Kellybellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11186473285513898735noreply@blogger.com