tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post2782354027443310534..comments2023-10-29T09:32:24.412-07:00Comments on Undercover Black Man: ‘Pink is the color of healthy flesh...’Undercover Black Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-71305158728103706382008-04-29T13:55:00.000-07:002008-04-29T13:55:00.000-07:00For any language nerds who might be interested... ...For any language nerds who might be interested... I’ve just found the origin of the phrase “in the pink of health.”<BR/><BR/>It has nothing to do with the color of flesh... or the color of skin.<BR/><BR/>The British website <A HREF="http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/in-the-pink.html" REL="nofollow">Phrase Finder</A> says “the pink of ____” dates back to the 1500s, meaning the epitome, the pinnacle. As in this line from Shakespeare’s “Romeo and Juliet”:<BR/><BR/>“Why, I am the very pinke of curtesie.”<BR/><BR/>Or this line written by Charles Dickens in the 1800s:<BR/><BR/>“It is the very pink of hideousness and squalid misery.”Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-86993817771066706872008-04-29T12:27:00.000-07:002008-04-29T12:27:00.000-07:00I haven't watched the video so I could be off on t...I haven't watched the video so I could be off on this comment.<BR/><BR/>the comment I read said that pink.FLESH is healthy. which strictly speaking is correct. Flesh refers to the meat and not the skin. <BR/><BR/>So for example pink lungs are healthy. black lungs are not.sondjatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06770540934297277676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-77734152355932045132008-04-29T00:09:00.000-07:002008-04-29T00:09:00.000-07:00David. This is what happens when one posits "huma...David. This is what happens when one posits "human sub-groups" as races based on biologically arbitrary (though politically purposeful) markers. I put added the subtitles for this <A HREF="http://assaultonblacksanity.blogspot.com/2008/04/scientific-biological-race-theory.html" REL="nofollow">piece</A> especially for you.Michael Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542253904917878025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-31044958282878936212008-04-28T18:50:00.000-07:002008-04-28T18:50:00.000-07:00Mills..."Michael, I did not connect Zimbabweans, H...Mills...<BR/><BR/><I>"Michael, I did not connect Zimbabweans, Haitians, Somalis, Jamaicans and Liberians as one racial group. I was using the same definition of "black" that you used..."</I><BR/><BR/>Well, as you well know, <I>my</I> definition of black folks is that of a socio-political group the functional content of that socio-political character is the victimization by a system of racism/white supremacy.<BR/><BR/>Thus you are saying that <I>"[Victims of Racism/White Supremacy] owe America some gratitude for being so much better off than other '[Victims of Racism/White Supremacy]' all over the globe."</I><BR/><BR/>In any case. Since we appear to finally agree that "black" people are a socio-political grouping and are so planet-wide, let's look at the pathologies which you consistently point out and which indeed exist.<BR/><BR/>Now do you think that anyone in their right mind would go around shooting other folks of "their" kind, disrespect their elders, the opposite sex, drop out of high school, and choose prison over a productive life?<BR/><BR/>If no, and since this is not a genetically based behavior, but a <I>learned</I> behavior, <I>who are the teachers</I>?Michael Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542253904917878025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-27788467685399495282008-04-28T16:35:00.000-07:002008-04-28T16:35:00.000-07:00Michael, I did not connect Zimbabweans, Haitians, ...Michael, I did not connect Zimbabweans, Haitians, Somalis, Jamaicans and Liberians as one racial group. I was using the same definition of "black" that <EM>you</EM> used when you asked <EM>me</EM>:<BR/><BR/>"<EM>Why</EM>, in your estimation, do Black folks owe America anything?"<BR/><BR/>"Black folks" owe America some gratitude for being so much better off than other "Black folks" all over the globe.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-52032843638565382072008-04-28T16:18:00.000-07:002008-04-28T16:18:00.000-07:00Mills..."Do you accept that a genomic scientist, w...Mills...<BR/><BR/><I>"Do you accept that a genomic scientist, when presented with four vials of blood, will be able to determine which blood belonged to a West African, which blood belonged to a Northern European, which blood belonged to an East Asian, and which blood belonged to a Mayan?"</I><BR/><BR/>While this is not the issue at hand, let me point out to you your, again no offense, <I>sloppy analysis</I> here.<BR/><BR/>First, you are stating the same thing as in comment 4/27/08 at 8:42pm, only now in the form of a question.<BR/><BR/>My answer is the same. Clearly there are genetic differences between humans. <I>Individual humans</I> that is. Again, in order to construct a race you have to <I>choose</I> biological markers that a large (define large) group of individuals have in common that <I>no other group of individuals</I> possess and do so on the basis of scientific objectivity.<BR/><BR/>Now, the statement "this person is East Asian" is completely useless. East Asia is a geographic region which contains multitudes of people who define themselves as different "ethnic" groups. See the Indian caste system, for example.<BR/><BR/>So the first thing you gonna have to do is give me the "standard" East Asian against whom I can measure who is not East Asian and who is. How do make the <I>objective</I> judgment that the particular individual you select is the "standard" out of the 1 billion diverse folks in India alone?<BR/><BR/>The Nazis had the same problem. They arbitrarily selected a "standard": light blond (though they failed to define exactly <I>how</I> light) hair, light (though they failed to define exactly <I>how</I> light) skin, skull shape, nose shape, blue eye color (although again the question of <I>how</I> blue was not resolved. Each feature was, if defined at all, defined within <I>arbitrarily</I> defined parameters and then cobbled together to make a "race", namely the “Aryan Race”. <BR/><BR/>Now, presumably there are humans that were born in East Asia who are 6 feet tall versus East Asians who are 5 feet tall. Moreover there presumably are humans who were born in Europe who are 6 feet tall versus Europeans who are 5 feet tall.<BR/><BR/>Could I successfully construct a race based on height by saying all 6 feet tall people constitute one race and all 5 feet tall people constitute another? Of course. Now I go and test for the genetic marker. And voila, there it is in the 6 feet tall persons born in East Asia as well as the 6 feet tall persons born in Europe. It is a marker shared only by 6 feet tall people. And it is more relevant than any marker based on some geographic and arbitrary standard. Though mind you, my <I>choice</I> of using the "6 feet gene" marker to construct my "race" was completely arbitrary.<BR/><BR/>Ok. Having dealt with that question, let me ask you this. On the basis of what biological markers did you define as a group these people on a Zimbabwean train <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWNsriKq7Q4" REL="nofollow">(here)</A>, people in Haiti <A HREF="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22902512/" REL="nofollow">(here)</A>, people in Somalia <BR/><A HREF="http://www.wfp.org/english/?ModuleID=137&Key=2805" REL="nofollow">(here)</A>, people in Jamaica <A HREF="http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2006/01/09/capital.shtml" REL="nofollow">(here)</A>, and people in Liberia <A HREF="http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/03/13/warcrimes.taylor.ap/index.html" REL="nofollow">(here)</A><BR/>together as a "racial" group?<BR/><BR/>And how is my “race” of 6 feet tall people any less legitimate than the race you defined by linking to these different people in disparate geographical regions throughout the world?<BR/><BR/>Please answer that one.Michael Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542253904917878025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-22429201433729521552008-04-28T16:14:00.000-07:002008-04-28T16:14:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Michael Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14542253904917878025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-25576588482742363772008-04-28T12:27:00.000-07:002008-04-28T12:27:00.000-07:00The ALFRED folks know all this, which is why they ...<I>The ALFRED folks know all this, which is why they warn against using their data to demonstrate unpleasant facts about differences between populations.</I><BR/><BR/>Please, let's see your comprehensive laundry list of genotype to phenotype and thence behavioural "unpleasant facts"?<BR/><BR/>David, you can leave the light on for this nazi boy toy - if you like. I'm not overly concerned we'll be reading anything else of substance from these quarters....,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-57670329732157438462008-04-28T10:56:00.000-07:002008-04-28T10:56:00.000-07:00the dunderheads at yale evidently succumbed to Lew...<I>the dunderheads at yale evidently succumbed to Lewontin's fallacy</I><BR/><BR/>Lewontin's claim is true to the extent that most human genetic variation is shared by all populations. However, Lewontin's "discovery" does not prove that there are no meaningful genetic differences between populations/races. <BR/><BR/>As the Edwards paper demonstrates, when, instead of just one allele at a time (like Lewontin did), one compares a bunch of alleles and their frequencies in different populations, the traditional racial, ethnic etc. groupings pop out of the genetic data. This has been empirically proven in numerous recent studies (<A HREF="http://shrn.stanford.edu/workshops/revisitingrace/Risch_confound.pdf" REL="nofollow">e.g.</A>).<BR/><BR/>The ALFRED folks know all this, which is why they warn against using their data to demonstrate unpleasant facts about differences between populations.<BR/><BR/><I>I wonder why that th post positively REEKS of pseudo-scientific and unreconstructed dragonhorseshit?</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps because you share Lewontin's prejudiced Marxist perspective on racial issues, and cannot tolerate the fact that science contradicts your preconceived notions? <BR/><BR/>Francis Crick, the co-discoverer of the DNA double helix, opined on Lewontin:<BR/><BR/><I>Lewontin, in particular, is known to be strongly politically biased and himself admits to being scientifically unscrupulous on these [racial] issues. That is, he takes them as political ones and therefore feels justified in the use of biased arguments.</I><BR/><BR/>It is unlikely that Lewontin ever believed in his own argument about human genetic variation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-38073296814734764792008-04-28T09:54:00.000-07:002008-04-28T09:54:00.000-07:00If pink is the color of healthy flesh, I'm gonna l...If pink is the color of healthy flesh, I'm gonna live forever...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-458332757762375422008-04-28T09:36:00.000-07:002008-04-28T09:36:00.000-07:00^ And also, Craig... I'm kinda surprised Lola didn...^ And also, Craig... I'm kinda surprised Lola didn't beat you there. (Lola probably is too.)Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-5386313498575587852008-04-28T09:31:00.000-07:002008-04-28T09:31:00.000-07:00^ Now that's what that Filipino bureaucrat shoulda...^ Now that's what that Filipino bureaucrat <EM>shoulda</EM> been talkin' about, Craig.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-25023410887451542362008-04-28T09:23:00.000-07:002008-04-28T09:23:00.000-07:00How "healthy" can the flesh be ... with the skin p...<I>How "healthy" can the flesh be ... with the skin peeled off it?? ;^)</I><BR/><BR/>David, gently separate some vulva this week and find out!!!!!<BR/><BR/>rotflmbao.....,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-84805629767685636462008-04-28T09:21:00.000-07:002008-04-28T09:21:00.000-07:00the dunderheads at yale evidently succumbed to Lew...the dunderheads at yale <A HREF="http://alfred.med.yale.edu/alfred/ethics.asp" REL="nofollow">evidently succumbed to Lewontin's fallacy</A><BR/><BR/><I>As genetic polymorphisms, the common alleles at the loci catalogued in ALFRED must be considered normal variation. It is a demonstrable fact that almost every human population differs from every other population in allele frequencies at one or more loci, but that the largest fraction by far of genetic diversity occurs among members of the same population.</I><BR/><BR/>I wonder why that th post positively REEKS of pseudo-scientific and unreconstructed dragonhorseshit?<BR/><BR/>David, is a "mayan" a member of the oriental or caucasian race? Or is their some woodpile negroidism insinuated up in there, up in there?<BR/><BR/>silly rabbits, "race" is for imbeciles....,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-82468946499955593312008-04-28T09:19:00.000-07:002008-04-28T09:19:00.000-07:00Lola: How "healthy" can the flesh be ... with the ...Lola: How "healthy" can the flesh be ... with the skin peeled off it?? ;^)Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-38075303105023600152008-04-28T09:11:00.000-07:002008-04-28T09:11:00.000-07:00Some points:The argument that "there are more gene...Some points:<BR/><BR/>The argument that "there are more genetic variations within a specified racial group than between racial groups", is known as Lewontin's fallacy. In other words, it's bunk. See <A HREF="http://www.goodrumj.com/Edwards.pdf" REL="nofollow">this paper</A>.<BR/><BR/>So, while just about all human genetic variation can be found within any given race, the frequencies of different traits vary between races--90% of members of one race may have trait X, while only 1% of another race has the same trait, and so on. For this reason the races can be distinguished from each other in genetic studies.<BR/><BR/>Of course, race is a problematic concept. There are always intermediates between two populations, so it's difficult to tell where one race ends and another begins. On the other hand, if you take a bunch of native people from, say, Nigeria, Belgium and Japan, and compare their genomes, every single person will be genetically more similar to every single member of his own population than to any member of the other two populations.<BR/><BR/>It's erroneous to assume that preference for light skin is always due to European influence. India, China, and Japan at least seem to have had a preference for fair skin (in women at least) long before any meaningful contact with Europeans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-4244371672092178742008-04-28T08:49:00.000-07:002008-04-28T08:49:00.000-07:00Ok, Im not reading all of these damned comments, l...Ok, Im not reading all of these damned comments, lol. But UBM, SKIN is colored - brown, black, tan, biege, etc. FLESH, ie the shit thats under the skin, if its healthy, its pinkish, lol. Its kinda gross when you break it down like that, but there it is.Lola Getshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058543308191117858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-23725694169839523342008-04-28T08:45:00.000-07:002008-04-28T08:45:00.000-07:00Cnu, I almost think you might agree with me.Strang...Cnu, I almost think you might agree with me.<BR/><BR/>Strange that you follow that with a link to some psychobabble implying the Filipinos are trying to pacify themselves in an ultimately destructive fashion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-51123588303559656092008-04-28T08:17:00.000-07:002008-04-28T08:17:00.000-07:00You didn't acquit your views very competently the ...You didn't acquit your views very competently the last time we round on this topic David. As it stands, I have neither the time or inclination to further disabuse you of the precious "magical thinking" idiosyncracies you share in common with <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Philippe_Rushton" REL="nofollow">Rushton</A><BR/><BR/>I'll leave you to your intricately rationalized superstitions like your boy Denmark Vesey is won't to tell folks,<BR/><BR/>"it's not a good look."CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-34954218123600665322008-04-28T07:59:00.000-07:002008-04-28T07:59:00.000-07:00Fisher (and Nulan): (1) Do you accept that a genom...Fisher (and Nulan): <BR/><BR/>(1) Do you accept that a genomic scientist, when presented with four vials of blood, will be able to determine which blood belonged to a West African, which blood belonged to a Northern European, which blood belonged to an East Asian, and which blood belonged to a Mayan?<BR/><BR/>If yes:<BR/><BR/>(2) Do you accept or reject the notion that human subgroups widely separated by geography underwent genetic adaptations influenced by their environments?Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-15299098898925410432008-04-28T07:43:00.000-07:002008-04-28T07:43:00.000-07:00^ "Drunk-tank pink" on a citywide scale. They shou...^ "Drunk-tank pink" on a citywide scale. They should try that one in Oakland.Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-72340967731159693622008-04-28T07:41:00.000-07:002008-04-28T07:41:00.000-07:00This is what the pink painting initiative is actua...This is what the <A HREF="http://psychology.about.com/od/sensationandperception/a/color_pink.htm" REL="nofollow">pink painting initiative</A> is actually all about.....,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-58302409922472379832008-04-28T07:36:00.000-07:002008-04-28T07:36:00.000-07:00Examination of this matter does not require that y...<I>Examination of this matter does not require that you delve into obscure genetics theory. </I><BR/><BR/>It does if you're stuck on trying to rationalize a chickenbone of anti-Black racism you have permanently lodged in your throat...., nothing like the conflation of 19th century animal husbandry, social darwinism, and pseudo-scientific genetic phrenology to warm the cockles of bigots with deficient scientific training and understanding.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-81772838412520133312008-04-28T07:33:00.000-07:002008-04-28T07:33:00.000-07:00Pink didn't look healthy at all.And of course, est...<EM>Pink didn't look healthy at all.</EM><BR/><BR/>And of course, estiv, albinos are renowned for their healthy pink glow!Undercover Black Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08704721024820668555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486244714643027014.post-40309485874777169602008-04-28T06:31:00.000-07:002008-04-28T06:31:00.000-07:00All this mumbo jumbo about what's knowable and wha...All this mumbo jumbo about what's knowable and what's not. Sometimes you should just start with observable phenomena. People have all different skin tones. People with different skin tones can procreate and create a skin tone that is similar but not like either of the parents. Do we expect these parents to define their child as different from them because of skin tone differences? We do not and most of us would consider the very thought to be ridiculous. That in and of itself should convince any thinking person that there is no basis whatsoever for classifications based on skin color.<BR/><BR/>As for the Filipino cultual confusion, any time a brown skinned person sees lighter skin as more positive than darker skin, they are evidencing a symptom or ramification of the white supremacy system. How can you hate your own view of yourself enough to think that someone else's lighter skin color is better than your own? But then flip the very same script and you see that people classified as white also appear to evidence this same self-loathing of their skin color as evidenced by the myriad activities performed by these white people to add color to their skin.<BR/><BR/>And even though you may not be able to see it, these are two sides of the very same coin. Examination of this matter does not require that you delve into obscure genetics theory. A simple glance at history can give all the empirical evidence needed to explain the phenomena.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com